Stupidly wrong but persistent tropes in books, plays, comics, movies and TV

[Woodchuck45]

Every week there’s a canal, or an inlet, or a fjord.

[gellfex]

@L_Mariachi

“Dumpy Simpleminded Slob With an Improbably Hot Wife” is another sitcom-specific one.

ETA: The Walking Dead is set in the deep South. They don’t have winter as such.

Hey, that 1st one is me!! (You’re welcome honey) And WD has been in VA for a couple of seasons, winter does come there. Most of the show has been in GA, even FL gets weeks at a time of sub 60’s weather pretty frequently.

@d_r

The manic pixie dream girl.

How many movies really fall into this one?

Jeez, most Carole Lombard, Goldie Hawn, early Streisands, Madonna (couldn’t resist). I’m sure there’s lots of more recent ones but rom-coms aren’t my thing.

Brings to mind another dress trope, Most women get colder than men, yet somehow TV women are always dressed in skimpy outfits when men are wearing pants and longsleeves. On the other hand this is often true in real life, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen girls in stilletos, tiny skirts and waist length jackets shivering on a Manhattan street corner heading to a club.

[gellfex]

@Nelsie

As was observed above, soldiers lose their bucket helmets in dramas so that one can watch the very expensive star actor do that thing they went to acting school to learn how to do in the way they were trained to do it by making their face muscles simulate expressions commonly associated with the emotions the movie makers want their audience to vicariously experience. Hiding their faces inside a helmet de-humanises them, puts a barrier between them and the audience. Since few actors are trained to act with masks or get much chance to practice it in their work, very few have any idea how to do it, and very few film-makers know how to bring out character without doing the face thing.

Yet somehow the most successful genre in film history has many of it’s protagonists wearing masks or helmets of some kind. Maybe the capes compensate, you can emote a lot with a cape swish.

[jamesnsc]

@gellfex

aybe the capes compensate, you can emote a lot with a cape swish.

No capes!!!!!!!

[Nelsie]

I believe that Vader was an antagonist for the original trilogy, as was Boba Fett. The stormtroopers were mere spearcarriers, of course. See my comment about helmets dehumanising the wearer. It’s notable in the latest episode that Finn removes his stormtrooper helmet as he takes his first steps to protagonism, while Ren vacillates between wearing it and leaving it off, but takes it off for his most villainous act.

[d_r]

@gellfex

The manic pixie dream girl.
How many movies really fall into this one?

Jeez, most Carole Lombard, Goldie Hawn, early Streisands, Madonna (couldn’t resist).

In no movie with Lombard or Streisand does the female character exist solely as a prop for the man as an aid to his development. Usually the other way around. (I haven’t seen enough Madonna or Hawn to have an opinion.) If the term is just being used to describe a personality type, not a plot device, then I wouldn’t disagree with you.

[piratejenny]

@gellfex

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen girls in stilletos, tiny skirts and waist length jackets shivering on a Manhattan street corner heading to a club.

Heck, in Portland they often don’t even bother with the jackets. I know it’s not my business what other people wear, but it still drives me crazy, because I’m pretty sure most places have a COAT CHECK.

[Skeptic]

@gellfex

Hey, that 1st one is me!! (You’re welcome honey) And WD has been in VA for a couple of seasons, winter does come there. Most of the show has been in GA, even FL gets weeks at a time of sub 60’s weather pretty frequently

Then there is the opposite, wearing sheepskin Uggs boots in LA heat.

Humans are kind of irrational…

[gellfex]

@Nelsie

I believe that Vader was an antagonist for the original trilogy, as was Boba Fett.

Who’s Vader? The genre I was speaking of is the almighty Comic Book Movies and their Masked Menagerie. I’m certain the DC & Marvel cumulative box office easily blows away the 6 SW.

@d_r

In no movie with Lombard or Streisand does the female character exist solely as a prop for the man as an aid to his development. Usually the other way around.

I disagree, in My Man Godfrey or Nothing Sacred Lombard’s character changes not a bit, nor as I recall does Streisands in What’s Up Doc.

[bibliophile20]

Thank you for posting that. Before I realized what I was doing, I had already ended up at TVTropes, and spent the next hour going through the Incredibles pages.

[d_r]

@gellfex

My Man Godfrey or Nothing Sacred Lombard’s character changes not a bit

I disagree with this, but in any event recall that the definition of MPDG is

that bubbly, shallow cinematic creature that exists solely in the fevered imaginations of sensitive writer-directors to teach broodingly soulful young men to embrace life and its infinite mysteries and adventures.

This is not even slightly a description of the Lombard character in MMG. She’s not especially bubbly, she’s not shallow, she doesn’t “teach” Godfrey any more than anyone else in her family does. Also, she owns every scene she’s in, she is not just an adjunct to Powell’s character. Being an attractive foil for your co-star does not make you a MMDG (or if it does it is a vacuous trope).

[Nelsie]

@gellfex

The genre I was speaking of is the almighty Comic Book Movies and their Masked Menagerie.

Well, let’s look at the first Avengers movie: Thor does not wear a helmet in the MCU; Hulk does not wear a helmet or mask; Hawkeye does not wear his hood in the MCU; Black Widow does not wear a helmet or mask; Nick Fury does not wear a mask or helmet; Iron Man does wear a helmet; and Captain America wears a hood. So, two out of seven, not a strong support for your thesis.

And that’s leaving out the fact that even those actors spend a large proportion of their screen time without their hood or helmet and, like mexican wrestlers, only wear them when fighting, when the screen is filled with bodily exertion and not emotional development. And even then, as I recall (I may be mixing up the MCU movies), Cap doesn’t always wear his hood, and we often get a helmet-cam view of Tony Stark’s face.

[gellfex]

@Nelsie

Well, let’s look at the first Avengers movie: Thor does not wear a helmet in the MCU; Hulk does not wear a helmet or mask; Hawkeye does not wear his hood in the MCU; Black Widow does not wear a helmet or mask; Nick Fury does not wear a mask or helmet; Iron Man does wear a helmet; and Captain America wears a hood. So, two out of seven, not a strong support for your thesis.

And that’s leaving out the fact that even those actors spend a large proportion of their screen time without their hood or helmet and, like mexican wrestlers, only wear them when fighting, when the screen is filled with bodily exertion and not emotional development. And even then, as I recall (I may be mixing up the MCU movies), Cap doesn’t always wear his hood, and we often get a helmet-cam view of Tony Stark’s face.

Seriously? Lets swing back to your OP on this

@gellfex

soldiers lose their bucket helmets in dramas so that one can watch the very expensive star actor do that thing they went to acting school to learn how to do in the way they were trained to do it by making their face muscles simulate expressions commonly associated with the emotions the movie makers want their audience to vicariously experience. Hiding their faces inside a helmet de-humanises them, puts a barrier between them and the audience

You point was they remove the mask for combat, and my point is the Superheroes often have one one. Picking one movie is not statistically significant. I’m NOT a comic geek but there’s a strong contingent of masked heroes. Batman spends much of the movies masked, and has no “helmet cam”. I’m not really arguing that explosions are a good substitute for acting, just that it’s very successful.

[Nelsie]

@gellfex

I’m not really arguing that explosions are a good substitute for acting, just that it’s very successful.

Sure, I won’t argue with that. But so are the stories about people, and they’ve been successful as much as the movies filled with spectacle, if not more so.

There’s actually a pretty weak contingent of masked superhero movies, compared to all the movies made without supers. Really, go look at your local cinema listing for a few months and count up the superhero movies compared to everything else. Even a few dozen superhero movies — where a lot of them don’t go under the hood, and of those that do, they either wear hoods that expose half their face or spend a lot of screen time in their secret identities establishing their characters (or both) — aren’t statistically significant compared to the myriad of movies and TV programs that aren’t superhero-based and eschew face covering of any kind.

As with all stories, the storytellers mix up the elements. It’s not impossible to tell a story with the actors in masks (the ancient Greeks did it, after all, as do many other traditions), it’s just that one has to adjust the storytelling to account for the distancing effect of the mask, if one has a good reason to keep the mask on. Superheroes often fight one-on-one with their villainous counterparts, and wear distinctive outfits so that the audience doesn’t get them mixed up with the mooks. Actors on mock-battlefields are surrounded by dozens or hundreds of extras often representing thousands or tens of thousands, all dressed similarly; those actors pull off their helmets so that they aren’t mistaken, even momentarily, for the extras. And so they can emote for the camera, because that’s what the script has their character doing, because of the story that the scriptwriters wanted to tell.

Stories are about people, and the way most of us most of the time recognise other people as people with rich interior lives is by looking at their faces.

[nimelennar]

@Nelsie

Stories are about people, and the way most of us most of the time recognise other people as people with rich interior lives is by looking at their faces.

I think Hugo Weaving did a fantastic job of conveying what V in V for Vendetta was thinking, considering that through the whole movie, we never see the character’s actual face.

But yes, it is much, much easier to convey that all with facial expression.

[gellfex]

@Nelsie

Superheroes often fight one-on-one with their villainous counterparts, and wear distinctive outfits so that the audience doesn’t get them mixed up with the mooks. Actors on mock-battlefields are surrounded by dozens or hundreds of extras often representing thousands or tens of thousands, all dressed similarly; those actors pull off their helmets so that they aren’t mistaken, even momentarily, for the extras.

Fair point. But it’s been done MANY times by giving our hero a distinctive helmet, or surcoat or sword or…

[Woodchuck45]

My attempt to oldsplain this phenomenon:

(At least before it gets below 0) There’s a trade-off between shivering and having to wait in line at the coat check to drop your garment off, and later holding up the rest of your party by waiting in line again, fishing out a couple bucks in cash, and waiting for them to find and hand you your garment again. It’s a waste of valuable partying time.

[daneel]

@Woodchuck45

waste of valuable partying time.

Yep. Takes time, costs money that could be spent on alcohol.

Wear a beer coat instead.

[anon67050589]

@Jilly

I understand it’s annoying when AI is misrepresented or time travel insists the traveler could build a toaster for our Viking invaders or CPR is not correctly portrayed, but try having your entire gender be a trope.

So now I don’t have to write a post. Thank you!

[anon68952647]