That’s what I meant about the definition of addiction! I was trying to be clever far too late at night.
It’s a hobby you can totally get sucked into. I did at first, when I had the expendable income. I’ve settled down recently out of financial necessity, but you’re absolutely right. I know a lot of people like myself who came for the harm reduction, and stayed for the science, the collectables, the community. It can be a serious money-sink, but so much fun.
Wait so some people are less concerned about regulation to ensure a product that isn’t dangerous and more worried about other people managing their addictions for them. Hmmm… if you are thinking like that you are an addict, and it also isn’t my problem or anyone else’s.
Just because you know the person who makes what you use doesn’t mean the average user does. That’s like saying most people brew their own beer, or roll their cigarettes (after growing the tobacco), so they know exactly what’s in it. The argument doesn’t fly. Vaping shops aren’t corner drug sellers, they’re the standard means people have for gaining the materials that are used in this process. You’re acting like artisan, and most people don’t pay for really expensive cheese.
You can’t ignore the standard product sold if you’re going to talk about its health effect on people. Vaping is not an artisan issue.
I noticed your source was “Steve K’s Vaping World”. You and your source failed to talk about (from #10 on that page) the fact that the FDA has already noted that vaping products contain that same amounts of diethylene glycol and tobacco-specific nitrosamines found in “other cessation products” - meaning patches and gum. In fact, they contain four times as much as nicotine gum, and as much as a patch. Neither of which produce and vapor at all. In other words, if you want to just quit smoking, and not force that on anyone else - a patch or gum is the better option.
If you can’t quit with a patch or gum, then by all means vape, but don’t pretend that you’re doing something clean (just because you have a habit). It’s “cleaner” but it’s not clean. In fact, the #9 study noted that e-cigs were 9-450 times cleaner - that means some are only 9 times cleaner from the option that even you say is a major problem.
I also noticed that you didn’t respond to the part of my post that put up a board of normal users discussing just how soon they planned to be vaping in their local theater. You may be an elite, but the hoi polloi aren’t behaving themselves.
Open Vape Texas?
My 2c (and to be honest, even for that, it’s overpriced). I know one person who vapes, and she’s someone who was a lifelong smoker, could never kick the habit until she tried vaping. Result - success. She’s a huge advocate of it.
If I’m sounding like some elitist snob hipster artisan to you, then either I’m not being clear enough, or you’re looking for offense where there isn’t any. Probably the latter.
Vaping shops aren’t corner drug sellers, they’re the standard means people have for gaining the materials that are used in this process.
Those are the exact establishments I’m talking about, though. Vaping shops, by and large, are where someone would get everything I’m talking about, with both quality and prices better than the pre-packaged Big Tobacco mystery disposables you see advertised on TV. You’re making it sound like some elitist mystery on where I get ‘the good stuff’, when really there are half a dozen different vape shops that have cropped up in a 10 mile radius of me in the suburbs. All of them are manned by enthusiasts who are more than happy to share the wealth of both product and knowledge.
I’m not acting like an artisan - I’m acting like an informed consumer who did a little research, talked to people, and learned without sneering at them from atop a soap box.
Don’t put words in my mouth, that I ever said I was doing something ‘clean’ or ‘safe’, or that everyone who vapes is some halo-wearing angel. I thought I made it pretty clear in another reply that I called people like your movie-theater guy ‘jackholes’. I’ve made it clear that this is harm-reduction, for myself and for the people around me. Even if there may be no significant risk from exposure to second-hand or sidestream vapor from an ecigarette, it’s just damn rude to openly vape in a movie theater. They’d probably be rude, entitled and inconsiderate even if they weren’t vaping, just about something else.
There are people like that out there, sure. Just like there are drunk drivers, inconsiderate cellphone users, asshole drivers, and argumentative internet commentors.
Hi there,
You’re actually putting words into my mouth. I never said “elitist”, “snob” or “hipster” - only you did. I used the terms “artisan” and “elite” as they are intended. You chose to take offense.
I didn’t post about just one guy. I posted a link to an entire forum discussing the acceptability of vaping in theater - to show that it isn’t the occasional tool who thinks it’s okay (they would be the hoi polloi). Even a guy who said he wouldn’t said, " Sure it’s not real smoke and doesn’t smell and all that good business," so he didn’t realize that, yeah, it does smell - even the unscented kind. The excuses given are that since others are lighting up cell phones why not vape or that no one’s really being bothered, so why not?
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarettes-public/240012-vaping-movie-theatre.html
You provided your own sources to imply that mine was somehow unfair or incorrect. If you also aren’t claiming vaping is safe or clean, then what’s the problem with me asking for all I’m asking for: don’t do it around me. You have every right to give in to your addiction, you don’t have the right to force it on me.
P.S. Your link is to a 2012 study where, “Four different high nicotine e-liquids” were tested, and was looking for carcinogens found in traditional cigarettes, but not in e-cigs. (Pollutants included VOCs, carbonyls, PAHs, nicotine, TSNAs, and glycols) You might want to look for something current, that looks for known issues with e-cigs (like metals) and with a better sampling rate.
I’'ve never smoked or vaped, but my roommate does (helped her quit smoking and substantially cut her nicotine intake). General etiquette is to ask permission from the establishment and/or your immediate neighbors before puffing, and to take a “no” with equanimity. I know some people don’t do that, and they are generally (and rightly) regarded as jerks by other vapers.
Even so, I really can’t muster much genuine outrage at someone emitting a brief puff of scented steam in my vicinity. It’s less offensive even than strong perfume, since it evaporates quickly instead of radiating constantly, and I wouldn’t feel comfortable regulating perfume. Some people are always gonna be assholes, but I think those numbers will go down as the etiquette develops, and IMHO even irresponsible vaping isn’t enough of a problem to punish every vaper for it.
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