Take this test to see if you can identify the correct lowercase G. Most people can't

[Melz2]

@sockdoll

My 2¢

Your whole 20$ worth; you mean.

O_o

Egads man, I’m at work: I don’t have the time to read that entire veritable wall of text right now.

Maybe once I get home, but I have a date tonight as well… so maybe not.

[sockdoll]

Sorry, I knew it was getting long and I type slow af to start with, but this is a subject that I have spent a lot of time thinking about, for most of my life. And while I enjoy your posts here - a lot, we’ve never really had occasion to engage in a discussion of any length before. I guess I got carried away.

[Melz2]

No worries; you’re clearly very passionate about the topic.

But I’ve also been drawing practically my whole life, since the age of two; and I remember struggling for years figuring out exactly how to make things “look real,” until eventually I mastered the skill… but along the way, I encountered many people who took the same classes, and read all the same books, even tried the same techniques… and they were just not able to master the same skill.

(Conversely, I suck at abstract art and/or drawing extemporaneously, but that’s the trade off, I guess.)

Consistent practice can make anyone better at just about anything, that’s true; but being competent isn’t the same as truly being good at something. That’s where talent comes in.

[cheem]

@sockdoll

There is always the ability to improve ones drawing ability somewhat - if the person has typical eyesight, brain function, eye-hand coordination and manual dexterity - the same things it took to learn to write, for example.

I’ve never been diagnosed with any kind of disability in terms of hand-eye coordination, etc., but I can’t draw to save my life, never been able to from a young age, much to the despair of my parents. I kept getting Ds in Art in spite of staying late, working longer and harder than anyone else in class and taking intensive summer art classes. I only passed because teachers could see I was making an effort, but they couldn’t give me more than a D because my freehand drawings and paintings were unrecognizeable as objects and I couldn’t move onto other things like block printing until I fulfilled the drawing requirement (whatever the FUCK that meant). Eventually I was allowed to do photography for art class and my grades normalized.

So no, I don’t believe that with some practice you can draw. It’s simply something that some people cannot do.

[coherent_light]

Ah. Although I don’t bother as much with printing, also I do it for printing, too.

@hecep

You write the “g” as shown in the video? Really?!

Yup. Both storeys. Sometimes I make a game of it—like, for this missive, I’ll only put a two-storey “g” if it’s not the end of a word. Nobody ever seems to even notice, but it’s not like I’m laying out clues for a mystery or anything.

If anyone needs proof, send me mailing addresses, and I can send you a postcard.

@Cunk

So you don’t use it when you’re not cursing? Weird.

I swear!

[coherent_light]

@RedFury

Mrs. Perlenfein taught us to make upper-case Q’s that looked like a script number 2, but it had a tail on the bottom left. I never liked them, and as soon as I was out from under her thumb, I started making Q’s that looked like O’s with a tail.

Aw. I love making those “2” Qs.

[copykate]

@Brainspore

@hecep

Nobody actually writes like that by hand.

But many aspects of letterform design are still based on the way we did write by hand, or at least the way a right-handed scribe would draw those letters by hand. If you’re drawing a closed loop with your right hand you’ll probably start at the top and make a clockwise circle to close it.

If you’re writing in ink, you’ve just smeared your loop. Starting from the top and making the loop counter-clockwise keeps your fingers out of the fresh ink.

[Melz2]

@cheem

So no, I don’t believe that with some practice you can draw.

I’d say that with practice most people can probably improve is more accurate… but I believe you when you say that the skill was just something that wouldn’t come no matter how hard you tried; I’ve seen folks break down into literal tears in an art class because of the sheer frustration (and it didn’t help that the professor was a total dickhead.)

[Brainspore]

@copykate

If you’re writing in ink, you’ve just smeared your loop.

How the heck are you holding that pen?

[ficuswhisperer]

@Carla_Sinclair

Only 2 out of 38 even knew a second lowercase “G” existed,

Not at all surprised. Anybody that hasn’t used a typewriter or read something with old school typesetting is unlikely to recognize the fancy g, let alone write it without a second thought.

[ficuswhisperer]

@Melz2

but who the hell actually used a ‘looptail g’ when writing anything by hand,

I used to, but only to be a dweeb. It is so impractical to write. I would also (and still do) write ampersands the long way. Doesn’t make my handwriting any less shit, though.

[coherent_light]

If I understand you right, it’s not really a problem I encounter, and I write with my right hand.

(Can’t be the pen, either. I use everything from ballpoint to RapidoGraph®s.)

@roomwithaview

You, sir or madam, are a goddam rockstar!

I salute you and bow in obeisance to your cursive awesomeness!

If you ever decide to become our looptail-g overlord I, for one, will welcome you!

Oookay. I have a patreon? I just find making print more laborious.

@Melz2

I’ve seen folks break down into literal tears in an art class because of the sheer frustration (and it didn’t help that the professor was a total dickhead.)

Also me, largely yesterday because fucking Elasmosaurus has too many CVs. Throwing an Elasmosaurus at dickheads would be good justice.

[Melz2]

@coherent_light

fucking Elasmosaurus

I totally had to google that.

[copykate]

I’m going to admit up front that I did not read your entire treatise. Because: wow! Submit that for a Ph.D. somewhere!

That said, I’m going to push back against your (apparent) premise that skill and artistic talent are the same. They are not. Although Jackson Pollock could draft a very accurate drawing, his art was in a very different mode.

Further, being able to improve a skill is not the same as being able to master a skill. People who have acquired, through laudable work and attention, a skill that not everyone possesses often fall prey to the other side of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Namely, that competent people erroneously suppose that everyone is or could be just as competent, a demonstrably false assumption. In order to attain competence at something you have to have the capacity to become so, or all that work and attention is for naught.

Annnnd to tie it in to the letters, I freely admit that I did not pick the correct g. Despite being a professional editor who reads a lot of letters (I did wonder “what font?” at least). I was thrown by the “handwriting” reference and have read so damned many badly designed social sciences studies that I just supposed that they were either 1) purposely skewing results with a false setup or 2) undergrads.

[copykate]

@Brainspore

@copykate

If you’re writing in ink, you’ve just smeared your loop.

How the heck are you holding that pen?

The usual way!

Are you not resting your hand on the paper as you write? Your clockwise loop starts fine but the second half moves your fingers into the ink. (Mine are safe, having made my loop widdershins.)

[RedFury]

I have almost the complete reverse experience that you have had. I was always the best draftsman/sketcher,etc.; but when I run across my old drawings, there is always the same reaction: “!Fuego!” I’d rather burn them than look at them, they’re so embarrassing. They look so clumsy and amateurish to me, now. I’d rather remember them as they seemed when I drew them - the best I could do.

As for language, I’ve had several ‘Not-English’ native speakers tell me I have an ‘ear’ for it, or that I’m a natural mimic. But…no matter how much I practice (or watch foreign channels with the captions on), the only foreign language words and phrases I can manage are profanities and ‘Spanglishisms’. I was the same way with musical instruments - I had 7 years of piano lessons, and now I can’t even find Middle C…

I think you are selling yourself short - I suspect you are a better artist than your inner critic will allow you to believe, and also you’re blessed with more determination (or something) that makes languages stick with you.

Vaya con Dios?

[sockdoll]

@copykate

I’m going to admit up front that I did not read your entire treatise. I’m going to push back against your (apparent) premise that skill and artistic talent are the same.

Yeah, I did spend some time trying to make that difference clear, but I get that my post was a lot to wade through.

@copykate

Further, being able to improve a skill is not the same as being able to master a skill.

That’s exactly what I wrote. It’s like you’re quoting myself back to me.

Thanks for letting me know what your thoughts are on the subject. I liked the way you expressed them.

[RedFury]

Oh, we’ve all got something weird mis-wired, it just might not be THAT particular circuit…

‘Happy Mutants’

[thisismydisaster]

mine are one my right calf but in all CAPS.

[Grey_Devil]

I hold my writing tools like i’m a half frozen ghoul trying to claw someone’s eyes out. It’s been a lifelong problem i’ve never been able to quite solve, and it gets worse the more intensely i’m focusing on something. When i used to draw regularly there’d be times where my tendons would be shot to hell and on some level i’m kind of glad i don’t draw for a living because otherwise i’d likely have serious issues with carpal tunnel syndrome.