Actually, they do.
No, they don’t. That’s why they are homeless.
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The ones I am talking about are not homeless any more. They are “destitute”, and are housed in renovated empty houses on public money.
Okay, that’s great. Do they have access to jobs or some sort of jobs training program?
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Yes, and they are not interested.
In fairness, I should say that the jobs they can get are poorly paid and not glamorous.
In fairness, I should also say that some of them are integrated back in normal society and that we don’t keep them. But some stay. I said it is a complex problem.
That is definitely true.
The issue is that some people evidently think that a way of solving the complex problems of modern cities (or at least turning them into SEPs) is making park benches, etc. that one can’t sleep on (or even sit comfortably on) - and not doing anything else.
The park benches themselves are not the problem, it’s the attitude behind them that makes me cringe.
I am intrigued by these quotes.
Who are these ‘destitute’? If they live where you do, why are they not part of the ‘local community’?
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Isn’t this where job training should come in? I mean, we keep hearing endlessly about how the trades (especially in building) are hungry for workers, so partnering with industry in those fields might help. Trade jobs tend to have opportunities for growth in the field.
And yeah, not everyone is going to be on board with all the programs, but I guess you help who you can and don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater just because not everyone ends up becoming middle class.
Me too.
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Trade jobs also tend to be a bit more complex these days. Plumber, painter, electrician, mechanic - 3.5 years. The shortest I could find Fachkraft im Gastgewerbe, 2 years.
Sure, that’s why you have job training programs.
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DC Central Kitchen is an organization doing a really great job of that. They work with the homeless, ex prisoners, etc.
“DC Central Kitchen targets the issues of chronic unemployment, intergenerational poverty, and recidivism with 14-week culinary job training program for at-risk men and women with histories of incarceration, addiction, homelessness, and trauma. Since the recession of 2008, DC Central Kitchen graduates have earned a 90% job placement rate in DC’s thriving hospitality industry.”
Jose Andres is a big part of the effort.
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That sounds like a great program.
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At least we can agree on something.
For the ones who cause the most trouble: mostly because they don’t want to. They find it quite convenient to live on free housing, get the fuel for their cars by stealing diesel from field watering pumps, racket the elderly, sell drugs and stolen goods, etc… Some are immigrants, some are from families who have been around for at least 2 centuries.
Now, this may be quite a different thing than the people who sleep on park benches in large cities. The example came in the discussion when people asked what happened when housing was available.
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Yes, and it’s one that should be expanded and or replicated across the country.
Donate!
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That and Salt Lake City’s housing program maybe. It’s easier to get back on your feet if you have a place to live.
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This is the sort of thing I find interesting (as someone who was moved around a lot as a child and therefore doesn’t have a ‘home’ community).
So some people in your area are part of the ‘community’, others who have been there presumably almost as long (if not as long) are not and presumably never will be.
Based on? Do none of the members of the ‘community’ ever break the law? Are none of them lazy? Do none of the members of the ‘community’ abuse the elderly?
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On preview, what @L0ki says.
You talk about the “destitute” and the “community” as two sets in opposition. In short, the destitute are not members of the community. I’m not sure who the “people” who are “not impressed” are. I hope not the “community”, because then the destitute are not even “people.”
Which goes to your second point about park benches not solving the problem. No one is arguing that. The argument is that other human beings should not be treated as less than any other human being. That other human beings cannot be vermin to be discouraged from using social equipment meant for real human beings.
Ahhh, immigrants. As for the other families you refer to, I am sure they have been around for more than 2 centuries (maybe not in your area)-- I would hazard that they’ve been around somewhere, along with the immigrants’ families, for a couple of hundred thousand years. I try to remember that when I see other human beings.
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Excuse me for being sarcastic, but is this a trick question?
Frankly, there s no secret in being a “member of a community”. Generally not being a compelete dick will usually do. You’ll get bonus points by participating in common events, talking to your neighbours, helping out on occasions. Because this is a rural community, interest in hunting, fishing or growing your own food will also attract sympathy. I got extra points for my knowledge of chicken diseases and their treatment.
Members of the “community” sometimes break the law. For example, some make their own alcohol, which is illegal. Some cars are not entirely in the prescribed shape, etc… That is generally considered venial, while breaking in your neighbour’s shed to steal their belongings generally will attract the ire of said neighbour and his friends.
Being lazy is not a problem per se.
Abusing the elderly is genrally frown upon.
To quote the ditty from (the now gentrified) “Sesame Street”, one of these things is not like the others.
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You are misrepresenting what I wrote.
We were discussing housing. I used the word “destitute” in the absence of a better term to talk about the people living in houses paid by helping programs. They get housing for free, officially because they cannot afford anything else. That single fact makes them “destitute”.
Some of them improve their financial situation and usually move away for better prospects. Some of them do not improve their situation.
As to what the “community” is. It is a small village, about 500 inhabitants. I would say that anyone who wants to be is a member of that “community”. Some have a good job and good money, some less so. Some are quite poor, particularly the elderly.
The people who are not considered members of that community usually excluded themselves by being complete dicks, as exemplified in the previous messages. They are still considered as humans, just particularly obnoxious ones.
No, not at all.
Quite simply, you are not the first person I’ve come across to make the claim that some people in an area, be it a town or village or whatever, are part of the community and others in the same area just aren’t.
Sometimes the people who are not part of the group are newcomers, sometimes not. Sometimes newcomers are accepted into the group (to varying extents, usually never fully). Sometimes, they are never accepted and will always be the “Zugezogenen” even 50 or 60 (or in your case apparently) more than 200 years later.
The dynamics genuinely interest me. I can say that in my experience your recipe - not being a complete dick - is a necessary but not a sufficient condition.
Taking part in community events (assuming you are allowed to take part in community events - you may not be) won’t do it.
Those things will get you into a perfectly comfortable status but won’t necessarily make you part of the community, just a tolerated outsider. Which status can easily be revoked should the ‘community’ decide that’s warranted.
On the other hand being a complete dick or lying, cheating, stealing, etc. will not usually get you removed from being ‘part of the community’ if you are considered an original part of it. That just makes you unpopular. Sometimes very unpopular to the point shotguns are involved but still ‘one of us’.
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