The value of Wikileaks

[Nobby_Stiles]

@anon61221983

So election interference is justified, because America does the same.

But hey, better to live in a global fascist world, apparently, as long as those of us who you’ve decided are the real problem are dealt with, right? Maybe a concentration camp under Trump won’t be so bad. After all, I’m the REAL problem here, because I did not single handedly stop American empire. I deserve whatever I get, so does everyone in America…

I didnt catch what it was you propose to do about it? Is the idea to maintain a hostile stance designed to damage their economy and threaten their interests till the Russians get rid of Putin? How’s that working out for all of us? I read that we are about to “invest” in a next generation updating of our nuclear deterrent. Great! I’m long of uranium stocks!

The relevant phrase in the Melian dialogue is “The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must”. The US meddles in other countries internal affairs cos they can. If RF does the same it will be for the same reason.

And I don’t understand why a hostile stance toward the RF helps you avoid living in a fascist America? I dont even understand why you have the impression I am criticizing you. I just think the policy of hostility towards RF is dumb. And so does Jake Sullivan as far as I can tell. The new enemy is China. Didn’t you get the memo?

@anon61221983

The fact that you don’t know that I and many others regularly criticize my own country shows just how blinkered you are about the community here. Many of us can hold two thoughts in our heads at the same time, and many of us bust our ass to improve our country’s foreign policy behavior and the lot for those of us who have historically been disenfranchised. That does not excuse Putin one iota.

Criticizing it isnt the point. What is the solution? Im going out on a limb here, but I dont think Putin cares whether he is excused. But lets agree that he is excused and a really bad man. What next? US is profoundly divided. Putin is a very bad man. Russians are being oppressed (silly - we are all being oppressed). So what to do?

Shall we keep being mad at them till they do better? Economic sanctions? More weapons? Proxy wars which kill other people’s kids? Lets hold three things in our heads at the same time. 1) We dont like Putin. 2) The US is crap 3) What to do about it?

And the key thing is number 3 is not Putin’s problem.

@anon61221983

But you’re okay with RF belligerence, apparently. Especially if it’s aimed at women or gay people there. What’s one more dead woman or gay man, after all.

Yup. You go fight for them. I wont stand in your way. I’m not sending any of my kids to fight Russians to save Russians from other Russians. Anymore than I would like Russians to send Russians to fight Americans to save Americans. Its nuts.

Some of those gay Russians have straight brothers, fathers, sons, that they dont want killed. Im not sure they would consider it a net positive to have their relatives die even if they were liberated from the pretty nasty environment they live in. I would definitely shoot the Saudis homophobes before I shoot Russian homophobes. Less downside.

I have absolutely no time or respect for R2P. Its just an excuse for imperialism dressed up as concern tourism, IMHO.

@anon61221983

Why are they more important than Russians living under oppression right now?

Well the lesser evil. Causing the death of 100mn is worse than leaving 10s of millions under oppression. Besides, you still havnt explained what it is you want to do to help Russians.

And then there is my selfish desire to keep my wife & kids alive. I know its wrong, but you aint gonna persuade me to prioritize anyone in Russia over them. I’m selfish like that.

And then finally there is that pesky Westphalian doctrine. I just think its safer