And of course the East LA punk scene was hardly all anglo, yeah? Alice Bag from the Bags was Latina… And isn’t Pat Smear of POC? Or we could make the skinhead culture/Jamaica connection (before skinheads got associated with the BNP).
And what band is more influential on the development of HC than the Bad Brains… maybe Black Flag, but that’s it.
When I went to a karaoke place in Tokyo (one of those facilities where you basically rent a private room to sing karaoke with your friends), I was fascinated to see three pages in the catalog of nothing but Right Said Fred songs. Probably a dozen or so albums, at least a hundred songs. Somehow they’re massively popular in Japan.
I loved it back in the 90s, but thinking about it now I can’t think of any DJ or band who wasn’t white. It did influence Dutch Happy Hardcore though, which was fairly diverse.
From what I’ve read on the development of popular music (which is generally with the age of the recording industry), you’re a pretty solid ground there. It’s rather hard to single out threads, though, since it connects back to the era before recorded music and you have to take how the industry designated genre into account as well as how people understood music in their lives. the case of Japan and Bluegrass is one such example, but if you think about Irish folk music, and how American music has influenced it now (the banjo shows up in it, right), you start to get a sense of how complicated it is to pin down origins.
Honestly, you’ve done as well as people who study this stuff for a living!
I’m still trying to figure out what ‘white’ means, but there is plenty of diversity globally in punk music. Latin America is enjoying a crust resurgence. There was Bad Brains, Pansy Division (white but queer + pop), Wesley Willis, Death, a lot of ethnicities represented by individuals in bands. Maybe the OP meant the audience was mostly white. There may be something to that…
Edit: There are some hip hop artists that qualify on ethos, Public Enemy, KRS-One
To some extent it seems like we are talking about the whitest end of various musical forms.
Rock and roll was black music but it got loose in the white wild and evolved into heavy metal, prog rock, grunge, post rock, math rock, etc. All very white.
Like the white rap discussion. If feel like if we divided rap into as many genres as we did rock, we might find some extremely white sub-genres.
I’d have to think the whitest music would be some variety of classical music.
Early punk and industrial also evolved out of art movements as well… Again, Greil Marcus makes that connection to Dadaist, situationists, etc, while early industrial draws from performance art scene in Europe as well as musique concrete, which experimented with soundscaping type stuff.
I would disagree with this. Punk shares much common DNA with reggae and there have been some pioneering black punk bands. One of (if not) the first bands recognized as punk (Death) was all black. Legendary punk band Bad Brains is also black.
I think the “white” reputation of punk is more media portrayal than anything. Yes, it’s still predominately white but I would not say it’s anywhere near the whitest genre.
Sure. I think we could say it’s still whiter than other genres of rap, yeah? Did you see the documentary about Nerdcore? I think it’s still on the Netflix, if you haven’t:
Do I need to move this discussion back to the white rappers thread?