# Tie doesn't go to the runner. There are no ties

Originally published at: Tie doesn't go to the runner. There are no ties. | Boing Boing

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A more accurate way to say it might be, “when there is doubt as to whether the runner or the ball arrived first, the typical convention is to give the benefit of the doubt to the runner.”

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For it to be a tie on the quantum level, the base, the runner, the ball, and the baseman would all have to occupy the same space at the same time. I think that might violate some physical laws.

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In the right reference frame, aren’t they always ties?

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But it doesn’t say the runner has to beat the ball. It says he has to reach the base “before he is out”.

Therefore, you have to define what makes him out.

He is out if “he or first base is tagged BEFORE he touches first base”.

Therefore, if he touched the base at the SAME TIME the base is tagged, he is not out and therefore he is safe.

Ergo, the runner wins the tie.

This one has always bugged me. The rules don’t say “runner wins all ties”. But the rules set up the conditions for an out and in those conditions, the runner does win all ties.

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Let’s say it is possible to arrive at the same time. The first rule quoted says the runner is out if the ball beats them to the base. (actually it says tagged but let’s not get into that) That leaves both the runner arriving first and a tie as safe. The 2nd rule quotes relies on the definition of out from the first. It doesn’t says “he touches it before the ball does” but rather “he touches it before he is out”. So if he isn’t out by the first rule then he gets the base. There’s no contradiction. If you don’t believe it’s possible for there to be a tie then that’s philosophical, but the rules certainly allow for it as an interpretation.

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Well put.

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Fermionic exclusion statistics. (Pauli exclusion principle - Wikipedia)

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Also you can’t really touch the base, your electron cloud and the base’s electron cloud have been repelling each other all along, and at some point they repel each other enough to arrest your foot’s forward motion.

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I personally found your write -up easier to understand, but yes, I get what you are both saying now. and thank you.

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Well, by that logic there are no ties in any sport involving racing to a point. Baseball has simply decided that there needs to be a decision one way or another anyway, so why bother saying “it’s a tie so you win” instead of “you win”?

There’s no gameplay state for tie, so declaring them to exist is pointless. It’s not like, say, hockey scoring where you can have a tie which is a state that must be resolved (and thus acknowledged by the rules). Of course, baseball scoring also has ties so that is a state which must be resolved in the rules and it is.

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It is a matter of perspective. With the ocular resolution of the referees being less than infinite, there will be times that it is indeterminate what happened first. The word ‘tie’ might not be appropriate, but for all practical purposes it happened at the same time. Hope I shot down the tie fighters (sorry).

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It’s possible at close to absolute zero, like liquid helium, but the humans involved might be worse for wear.

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The rules absolutely do NOT say this, as @jhutch2000 above points out. It’s a little troublesome that a former MLB umpire missed this.

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Working on circuits that measure to the sub-picosecond level has me convinced that the probability of there being an actual tie in baseball is very low.

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I know it says almost so I’m covered. I watch a lot of Detroit baseball, I have never heard that phrase.

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There are no Ties? Tell that to Gold Leader!

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Are you saying that the Tigers always lag behind the ball?

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