One perfectly reasonable way to interpret this statement is that she didn’t spend a lot of time while growing up playing video games (perhaps in part because of some of our cultural taboos against women playing video games) but came to see that video games are an important entertainment medium with wide reach. That she didn’t think much of video games before but has since reappraised her opinion.
What was the lie? Obviously you’re spending a lot more time finding reasons to dislike this woman than I am.
That depends. I disagree that it’s a “non problem”. One could easily argue “it’s not a serious problem”, but then that’s just an opinion. I think sexism is actually a pretty serious problem (evidence: the sexist reactions to Sarkeesian’s videos).
IOW, “lazy”.
Disagree. I think what it reflects is juvenile wish fulfillment and white knighting.
Why do you think that is? Do you think women have some sort of biological aversion to video games or do you think that this may have more to do with cultural attitudes surrounding video games?
When I was a kid I spent a lot of time in comic book stores. The only girls there would be cashiers hired as much as eye candy as anything else. But then Gaiman started writing Sandman and suddenly comix nerds all over could share their avocation with their girlfriends. Goth girls started reading more comics because suddenly the big publishers were putting out comics that weren’t based on adolescent male wish fulfillment fantasies. There’s more women writing and reading comics than ever now.
It’s a feedback loop. Currently it’s men buying most video games; you use that as the justification for tailoring all games to men. Since games are tailored to men it’s mostly men buying video games. But if you break out of this stupid cycle and make some effort with your storytelling and characterization then it’s possible that you could start to capture some of the women gamer market which, despite your conviction that women shouldn’t be playing video games, is a rapidly growing market.
I simply disagree. Fixing this problem involves women spending more money on games (which they already are) but it also involves changing the culture of game development and the cultural attitudes reflected in top-selling titles. In this respect Sarkeesian’s commentary is usually pretty right-on.
Yeah, I went through this with my daughter, too - big time. It seemed to be her own invention - she wore dresses way after the other girls gave them up and today, at 15, still likes to wear them. She seems to have this really cool idea of what girl is, which I love, but it did involve heavily pink and purple and dolls when she was young. But then again, her favorite book when she was 3 was about trucks.
“Women, go play your own games” isn’t actually any less sexist than “women shouldn’t be playing video games”.
Analyzing the storytelling of games that are traditionally seen as “male-oriented” or whatever isn’t “cherry picking data”. As far as I can tell, there’s no rules against women playing and talking about The Legend of Zelda.
As a male gamer (and I am a serious gamer), I resent this comment, and it;s reflective of your outlook more than the argument.
The first time I played Saints Row 2 I revelled in my ability to create a middle-aged, dumpy female character with a beehive; rather than some muscle-bound idiot or bikini-clad sex doll; which is par for the course with video games. I’m not saying that game was some kind of feminists dream (far from it), but you don’t have to be a woman to appreciate that aspect of a game.
Men like well written video games with believable characters as well; contrary to your assumption. Games with real women in them aren’t for women, they’re just for people. Why do you think there need to be games for men and games for women? Again, indicative of your outlook, and not the issue at hand.
In fact my biggest gripe with GTA V was that one of the 3 main characters wasn’t a woman. Considering that Trevor was the only character with any kind of personality either of the other two could have been easily swapped out. I don’t suggest this as a way to appease women, but a way to appease ME - because playing as varied, believable, rich characters is fun. Having a female lead would have given many more storyline opportunities and added some other dynamics that would have been welcome. And no, I don’t mean cleaning missions and make-up stores. Imagine Michael being swapped out for an elderly Chinese lady. Immediately I find that so much more compelling; don’t you? Being able to relate to the characters should be irrelivant, unless you’re a sociopathic serial killing bank robber; but if that helps invite a whole new class of gamer then that’s fantastic.
What you’re really talking about isn’t the needs of men, but the needs of 13 year old boys who only see female game characters as upskirt opportunities. Real gamers do appreciate believable characters, or at least well-written ones.
Thank you for being so remarkably level-headed in responding to the majority of the points brought up by others for discussion in this thread. I agree with you on nearly all of them and it’s wonderful that you took the time to formulate well thought-out posts (it means that now I can just +1up yours in support).
I thought people may be interested in this interview with Anita for IGN, which certainly does seem to suggest that it was while researching the representations of women in popular media she became more interested in (playing) games as an adult.
How long does someone have to play games to qualify as being a ‘gamer’? Six weeks? Six months? Six years?
The generalizations overall are what I’m objecting to. Someone without kids is saying “only gravitate to gendered toys when they’re with their parents who push gender stereotypes very heavily.” Their words, my emphasis. Melissa1 calls out sr105 as doing it in a subtle manner, but not for everyone else.
Kids do not only gravitate to certain toys around their parents. Kids gravitate to certain toys or clothes because that’s what they like. And their likes can be influenced by peers, grandparents, media, whatever. But raising a little person who wants to develop their own opinion demands that you let them form that opinion with input from these places. Our kid has never seen a Disney movie in her life (she believes they’re too scary and prefers Miyazaki), but her best friend is a huge fan. So she has developed her favorite Disney Princess and ideas based on how Princesses act from a peer. And her peer has developed these thoughts from parents who also don’t push, their house isn’t pink, her mom is a smart businesswoman who is well aware that women can do whatever they want.
My point? Sometimes kids just like pink because they like pink. They’re not making a statement. They’re not setting women’s issues back. You can’t tell them they can do whatever they want or create their own thoughts and then tell them “except for those.”
Peers or mass media or grandparents or varying amounts of all of those. I added the “may” to cover whatever that ratio is because I’m not sure. And I certainly can’t ask her to get a scientific, verifiable answer.
I always thought the sparkles was because who doesn’t like sparkles? They’re shiny.
Seriously though, don’t get me wrong, it’s a fuzzy conversation anyway, philosophical in nature; as what is a ‘real want’? I’d guess that many of our wants and needs are shaped by society; whether we realise it or not.
The point is though that it’s dangerous to claim that little girls like pink because they like it. In 99% of cases it’s because they’re told they should like it; in exactly the same way that most young boys dislike pink; those aren’t ‘real’ feelings (whatever they are), but influenced decisions.
The only way to test this of course is to have another child and keep it in solitary confinement for 10 years - I have a feeling that on top of the inevitable social problems that child would develop they would also lack a preference for cultural norms.
We are a gendered society, of course gender is going to come into it.
Look, I agree that it “shouldn’t” but it does. And its beyond frustrating, a woman in society, to constantly have to point out the lack of representation, the issues with representation, and “male” being the default. And then be told it doesn’t matter, it’s just a cartoon/joke/movie/story/comic/whatever. Women out number men dammit! Why aren’t we the default, there’s more of us!
