Discussion is not an attack.
No one is attacking games or gamers or insulting them.
3 Likes
It is but a drop in the ocean⌠tis true. Are there bigger fish to fry, of course. That doesnât mean this isnât a fishâŚ
1 Like
Have you got a link to one of these videos where she states that she hates video games? Are you sure itâs her, and not someone else? Edit: Never mind, I found the video in this thread.
She certainly doesnât speak in these videos as though she hates games, so if I had to bet on one of these being a social lie, Iâd say it was the monochrome video. But this criticism of her still doesnât address her points about female portrayals in video games, which are just as well-researched and cogent as before that video surfaced. Men are unmarked, women are marked by bows and pinks and purples and typically have no other characteristics, and this is not a good thing.
3 Likes
Consider the series in whole. There is a disclaimer on the front, but often the message sent is âPlaying these games doesnât make you a misogynist, but only a misogynist could enjoy these gamesâ. The message is clearly being received as anyone that defends a title Anita mentions is quickly denounced (often correctly, to be fair) as a misogynist.
So sorry for being too invested in my bird morphology.
1 Like
Well, they couldnât call them the Cows, now, could they?
Although the number of times you see cows portrayed in cartoons and whatnot as having masculine voices, you have to wonder how many people believe that bulls and cows are separate species.
2 Likes
Bullettes!
1 Like
Iâm not getting the same messages you are. Frankly, I think yours is a pretty ridiculous contention. Iâve never seen Sarkeesian make anything but fairly mild criticism of sexism in video games and that doesnât mean âonly a misogynist could enjoy these gamesâ any more than fairly mild criticism of sexism in Hemingwayâs novels implies that âonly misogynists could enjoy these novelsâ.
Itâs pretty difficult to argue people out of positions like, âSarkeesian is calling me a misogynist in double secret code.â Letâs try to address the arguments that are actually being made instead of making up secret and nefarious intentions for our opponents.
7 Likes
Yeah, no, thatâs not the message. The message is âlook, these games have some issues and we want to talk about that as it relates to over half the population on the planet and society in generalâ. That is the message sent.
How it is received and reacted to should be itâs own damn series (or at least a tumblr!).
5 Likes
I canât speak for Spookiewon, but personallyâŚlook, much of the message is great.
But after I saw a video much like this oneâŚshe more or less contradicts the claims she made in her Kickstarter video.
Apparently her main problem is that thereâs too many dicks on the dance floor. To be fair, she could have been going through a time when sheâd decided she was no longer a fan, or it could be that, in a college environment, she felt the need to disparage games and gaming. If itâs the latter, it suggests that sheâll say whatever she needs to say to be accepted by a group.
And thereâs the thing of a lot of the video footage in her game videos are ripped directly from the Letâs Play videos. Surely she had enough dough to be able to record original footage. It could be that they were unable to find a way to record gameplay videos; the simplest explanation, though, is that they didnât record videos because the games werenât played by her or her interns.
So that Kickstarter money went to�
And thereâs that allegation that she was the one who went to 4chan first with information about her Kickstarter fundraising plan, and then they started the brigade. Now, that doesnât validate or legitimize their actions in any way, of course, but one has to think she knew there would be a harsh reaction to going to 4chan.
All those taken together donât suggest a high level of ethics, but rather that of a career-minded opportunist. It would also suggest that sheâs a master at playing to peoplesâ emotions, managing to parlay a 4chan shitstorm into getting people to be excessively generous.
And letâs not forget that the majority of the games sheâs critiquing are Japanese, which means sheâs applying Western feminist ideals to products of Japanese culture (not that thatâs entirely a bad thing imho.)
Again, much of her message seems to be just fine, and some of the things she mentions in videos really makes me think. ButâŚgiven the amount of content âliberatedâ from other channels, the number of gamers who have watched her videos and said, âWhat???â to her conclusions about characters, and how little it costs to set up a green screen these days, ti sure seems like people were taken for a bit of a ride. I could be totally off the mark (it could happen!) but having worked with the public for a number of years I like to think I have a decent sense of when someoneâs trying to scam me.
Or as I once said when someone accused me of being misogynist because I didnât want Hillary Clinton to be President, âGeez, I have no problem with a woman being President, but does it have to be that woman?â
2 Likes
You mean like how the main character of âBarnyardâ is male, is a âcowâ, and has UDDERS!
1 Like
I canât remember which game it was, but there was a pen and paper RPG world where part of the mythology was that using magic generated a lot of heat. This was purely there to justify why female wizards wore such skimpy clothing.
1 Like
Sheâs explained this at great length. Someone even linked to an interview of her somewhere upthread a little where she talks about it.
Why is it that people just canât resist ascribing terrible motives to this woman?
5 Likes
I wrote this in response to an exchange whether someone said that they didnât listen to her because she had shamed gamers and said she didnât even like video games and someone else called this an ad hominem fallacy. It didnât even relate to the video linked here.
I donât want to wade in on whether she is against gaming or gamers, I just wanted to correct an accusation of ad hominem where I didnât think it was warranted.
How were people taken for a ride? Have her supporters, the people that funded her kickstarter complained or asked for their money back? They liked her videos, they gave her money to continue making videos, how is that a âconâ?
The only people that seem to complain about her are ones that have been complaining about her since before the kickstarter.
Also, allegations are allegations, and if they come from 4chan⌠imma need a mountain of salt to swallow first.
5 Likes
Man has idea - kickstarter funds it - sucessful entrepreneur!
Woman has idea - kickstarter funds it - BURN THE WITCH!
5 Likes
Blimey, I was fishing for some context, not requesting a thesis!
Nicely put though (whether true or not, I really havenât invested any time in researching her background) - although itâs a shame that her reputation overshadows the message. I swear her videos are only posted to Reddit so men can talk about how much they hate her.
1 Like
1 Like
That was my first reaction, but Iâm warming to the idea. Itâs not intended to be the same as IWD, as the issues are different for each. Itâs basically about celebrating good role models and the benefit men do in communities, while working towards improving gender relations and addressing genuine problems faced by men and boys. It doesnât seem to be about superiority or whingeing (although thereâs plenty of that in the comment sections of articles about the day). Iâm happy to support it to the extent that this is the case.
Why is it that people just canât resist ascribing terrible motives to this woman?
And why is it that some people canât even entertain the notion that she mightâmightâhave terrible motives?
Not that Iâm expecting anyone to stop and think criticallyâpeople said vile things about her therefore sheâs 100% honest and rightâbut if youâd spent a moment reading my comment rather than rushing to reply, you wouldnât have to ask.
it really costs very little money to set up a green screen, get a decent camera, set up some lights and reflectors, rip some Letâs Play videos off of Youtube, and produce a video. Heck, come to that, you can hire out that slick looking bumper for ridiculously cheap nowadays.
Was there a witch hunt for Ouya? The Toughest Girls of the Galaxy was funded in 30 seconds, too. And I donât see the same level of hate leveled at Debbie Sterling that I see at Sarkeesian, either.
Sheâs a polarizing figure. I daresay she aimed for it. And it worked. For whatever reason, people act shocked when someone aims to be a polarizing figure and ends up being one. In some groups, itâs literally impossible to disagree with her on anything without being labeled a hateful misogynist.
I understand where youâre coming from. My only major concern is this notion that people are so willing to shell out money to someone who, IMHO, seems so shady. Itâs their money, so if they want to give money to someone whoâs basically looking for easy money thatâs their business, so thatâs that. The main message is hard to debate, other than some quibbles that some gamers (like, most infamously, thunderf00t) have brought up, and itâs a shame itâs impossible to attempt to debate those issues without it turning into a flamewar.
3 Likes
