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Exactly how is it that the 13th Amendment does not apply here? How can you force someone to work for no money. Also, if Trump wants a shut down, give it to him. Strike. Give him a REAL shut down. Not that it will affect DonnieBrains, but it will screw with the party big time.
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Point of Clarification:
Pretty sure the 13th amendment doesn’t apply since no one is forcing these people to work. They could just quit.
Now please don’t shoot the messenger! This is an awful choice.
But it’s still a choice and therefore not slavery.
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I think this is a point, but it does not apply to anyone who can be held to an oath of conduct (like, say, the Coast Guard, where it becomes rather less grey).
Of course, if you just show up, and only look for a new job while “on the clock” it isn’t like anyone’s manager can credibly claim employees are being paid to do the job they’re supposed to be doing.
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Working under Trump and not getting paid? That’s right in his wheelhouse.
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Not to mention unlikable, right? That Trump guy sure has shown himself to be a charmer after all.
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Not just morally, isn’t that the problem?
At present they are literally not able to pay their debts as they fall due.
I appreciate that is ‘normal’ under the US’s rather odd way of funding the government.
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The problem with quitting is that you do not get unemployment compensation. If you get fired, you can file for unemployment and begin to receive some compensation, so you have something coming in. You may have to defend yourself in court / arbitration as to why you got fired, but officials usually rule in favor of the ex-employee anyway.
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I get it. It sucks.
But I would suggest caution about comparing that admittedly sucky situation to the one faced by our black brothers and sisters for 250 years in this country.
It isn’t the same. Not even close. And suggesting it is the same is a pretty bad look in my opinion.
Where did I make any mention of slavery ? I was responding to your suggestion that they quit their jobs as a choice. Quitting vs firing has consequences, and I am simply pointing them out.
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You responded to my comment about not invoking the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery.
Slavery is what we are talking about.
The comment folks have been making about the 13th Amendment was specifically not comparing this to slavery, but pointing out that it is literally government-mandated work without compensation, which certainly sounds like the involuntary servitude also mentioned in that amendment:
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States,
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It might be useful for folks to remember the distinction between slavery and chattel slavery. Not all slavery is like old-timey American slavery; that was a particularly horrendous manifestation of the practice.
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There are plenty of slaves in modern America, they just aren’t chattel slaves. They’re in the prisons.
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Comparing the current situation of unpaid federal workers to slavery is somewhat misguided and distasteful. Workers that are free to quit their jobs are not experiencing involuntary servitude. Comparing the plight of unpaid prison guards to slavery is particularly dodgy.
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Disagree- you may think it “certainly sounds like… involuntary servitude” but I do not.
Being able to quit a job voluntarily certainly sounds nothing like involuntary.
Good gracious- it took all of 3 weeks for privileged white people to play a “HELP I’M BEING OPPRESSED” card they never had.
Literally all of this.
Exactly, it’s very much up for debate. I personally agree that in the end, involuntary servitude is more along the lines of prison labor than being called into work when you don’t want to. But I think people are trying to stick up for the 800,000 federal workers being screwed over, and hoping to find a legal silver bullet in the constitution. I’d suggest that you are the one bringing race into this, which is not a good idea. Nobody here is trying to suggest that white people are enduring the same thing black slaves did. Nobody.
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People should use a different tactic to “stick up for federal workers” than “it’s just like slavery!” because to do so is distasteful.
“Involuntary servitude” does not always mean “slavery”.
It is coerced work, which does cover what we consider historical slavery, but also covers much less severe conditions. People complaining about coerced work are not necessarily saying they are historical slaves.
You are reducing a broad definition to its most extreme example. Coerced work is unconstitutional, at less severe levels than historical slavery, and that’s a good thing for people.
What’s going to happen is that the federal government will be sued, and a judge will decide if work was coerced, under the actual broad definition. The judge will not look for old-timey shackles. But if it’s decided that there’s unconstitutional coerced work, then that’s that.
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They are not. Again, that’s not the part of the amendment they are referring to. They are specifically and repeatedly calling out the “involuntary servitude” phrase and making sure to clarify that they are not calling federal workers slaves.
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