Trump, Hitler, and equating things that are vaguely similar in some aspects

Continuing the discussion from To fight gun violence, Trump proposes detaining mentally ill Americans:

That’s rather inaccurate. The Nazis started coordinated round up and murder of political opponents within weeks of taking power. They had paramilitary units committing murders even before that. And Hitler had been rather unambiguous on a war on the East, and exterminating the Jewish people, a full decade before that.

I don’t doubt that Trump is a dangerous authoritarian. But he’s not Hitler, and “The Art of the Deal” is not exactly “Mein Kampf”.

The first step in dealing with a problem is to describe it accurately. Hyperbole is not accurate description. Thus, I see equating Trump with Hitler not as helpful, but harmful to the task of dealing with him as a problem.

My take is that Trump is a demagogue and an opportunist, who will go along with anything that keeps him on top of his right wing base. In that, he is fundamentally different from the ideologue Hitler. Trump has no ideology other than himself. Hitler scrambled to power to implement his ideology. For Trump, ideology is just a vehicle to power.

Yes that may become kind of indistinguishable, and a moot argument at some point. Then again, it might not. A doctor won’t say, I don’t care if you’re suffering from a bacterial, or virus infection, I just want to get that fever down.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf

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Thanks for explaining at length that, even though trump has been doing a lot of fascist things, and a lot of them have direct comparisons to nazi policy, and even though he talks a lot like hitler sometimes, trump isn’t exactly the same as hitler so we have nothing to worry about.

Surely you personally have nothing to lose if he sets up a fascist authoritarian regime and implements some kind of eugenics program.

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Not sure how

is a refutation of

In fact, I would say you were confirming @Melz2’s point.

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Fascism will evolve to take on characteristics of its host nation. Instead of seeing fascism of Germany as synonymous with other versions it’s better to see them the way cancer operates. It has all the same basic characteristics but in itself it will always be adapted to its environment with various mutations which give it resilience. American fascism is definitely a thing that the current President believes in. He’s not Hitler, but he’s definitely a fascist who’s instituting fascist policies for other fascists. I don’t fear Trump but I do fear who comes after him since he’s laying the foundation for our own version of the final solution.

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Trump is not literally Hitler.
Martin Luther King Jr. was not literally Mahatma Gandhi.
Pepsi-Cola is not literally Coca-Cola.

However all of those have enough similarities to make useful comparisons.

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GOP in 2016: Its not like Trump wants to put people into camps
GOP in 2019: Calling them concentration camps is a bit harsh!

Trump is not Hitler, just Hitler adjacent. Neo-Nazis love the guy. Actual Nazis are long gone.

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He lights up all the proto-fascist warning signs. If you think all it will take to get rid of him is some voting, you aren’t paying attention. He (and the GOP that enables him) just break the rules on a whim, and challenge opponents to stop them. Traditional methods don’t even make a dent. Look at the immigrant concentration camps: the administration lost in court on family separation - they ignored the ruling and separated families, anyway.

If you think the rules or structures are going to save you; if you think social disapproval will make them hesitate for a millisecond, you’re dead wrong.

In other words, it’s not hyperbole; we’re just in the 1934-ish stage.

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If you are waiting for events to match up exactly before doing something or objecting, then you need to have a better conceptualization about historical forces.

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I don’t even argue with that, but a proto fascist doesn’t make a Nazi dictator.

I really don’t get it. The most likely course of events is that he will be voted out in 2020, and until then, decent people and democrats (lower case d) will have to fight to limit the damage he is doing. This is not a dictatorship.

By 1934 the Nazis had suspended parliament, suspended civil liberties, and were rounding up their political opponents into concentration camps. If you insist that’s a historical parallel, I can’t follow.

I didn’t say that. Explicitly said he’s a dangerous authoritarian. No idea for what reason you need to turn what I said completely on its head.

Have we met? Because you seem to know a lot about me.

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Comparisons, sure. But when you can make comparisons, you can also look at differences, and that can also be helpful, and shouldn’t lead people to the fallacious assumptions that this is in defense of Trump. A bacterial infection is different from a virus infection, and any remotely competent doctor will account for the difference, and not balk at people for being soft on bacteria.

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So they’re ahead of schedule on some things and behind on others.

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Both succumb to sufficient light.

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By the time we get to nazi dictator :clap: IT :clap: IS :clap: TOO :clap: LATE :clap:! That’s the WHOLE point. You don’t want them to get to full on nazi, because then there are dead bodies. Look, my grandfather did not shoot, punch, and bayonet his way across Europe, help liberate a camp, so we can vote in a proto-fascist. He did it so that we wouldn’t have to, so his kids, grandkids, and great grandkids would not have to deal with that shit. And yet, here we are.

Let’s not count our chickens, shall we. NO ONE seriously expected him to get into office in the first place, when he announced his run. And yet, here we are.

Except for all the voter suppression and attempt to ensure that people of color, even those who are full legal citizens, are afraid to vote. And double that with the attempt to undercount Latinos by trying to put in the bullshit citizenship question. Triple that with the attempts to keep children in cages, break up families, end birth right citizenship, ensure that the working poor here legally can never become citizens, etc.

And if it gets to that, what will you say then? Why is the ongoing situation at the border not warning enough? why is breaking up families not problem enough?

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sure about this? Im not.

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He has packed the Courts, dismantled all checks and balances, corrupted the electoral process, arrogated powers the president has never had, and has stated that the Constitution says he can do what he wants. He has also told his followers to commit sedition if he loses.

But he’s not a dictator because someone says so

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Not bad for a “Real Estate” agent no?

Hint: He’s no fucking real estate agent

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where did I even remotely hint at that I’m okay with that shit