In 2008 there was a Colbert Report segment about Trump flying an illegally large flag at a golf course. “I don’t know what the 13 stripes represent” would be the choice quote.
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Uh, no, not if one “extreme” is fact. The truth is not half-way between fact and falsehood.
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That’s the flag that Trump had his Trump Foundation “charity” pay the fine for, in the form of a “donation”.
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I disagree; Flag burning can have many meanings depending on the burner. In the case of US protests, it isn’t because the protestors are somehow ignorant of or resentful towards the US as an idea. Rather, I feel it is a very visceral means of highlighting the hypocracy of those who would place so much faith a simple, physical, frail object over the enduring history of our rights and freedoms.
If I burned a flag, it would be to repudiate the toxic and slavish devotion to symbolism that seems to be trumping cornerstones like civil rights, rule of law, and civil discourse.
It would be to say “This thing that you cherish? Your actions render it hollow and meaningless.”
ETA: I agree with the back half of the above quote, I just want to say that I disagreed with the pet about it being “vile”.
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I’d personally like to see someone with the technical know-how (and time, budget, willingness… basically, not me) create a Trump simulacrum which is holding a flag and a lighter. It would monitor his twitter feed and light the flag up if he makes any suggestions that blatantly violate the constitution. So the responsibility is entirely on him, and as long as what he says is consistent with constitutional principals the flag will proudly fly unburnt. Once he says something unconstitutional, he becomes a flag-burner.
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There is some truth to that. But of course, shrewd manipulators might then hope to push certain truths by changing where the extremes are.
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Why on Earth would they want to do that? Seriously, Trump being Trump on Twitter got them this far, and press agents didn’t help Clinton or any of Trump’s primary opponents.
Insofar as some of the worst of the Establishment Republicans he’s bringing in (along with the Alt-Right dingoes) half-heartedly repudiated him after Pussy Gate, they did that because they thought “family values” conservatives would abandon him (surprise, they’re hypocrites!) and they didn’t want to go down with him. Now that he’s won and they’re kowtowing to him to get back in the halls of power (doubtless wondering when he’ll get around to exacting revenge on each of them a la Chris Christie), reigning in his bilious Twitter rants is of zero benefit to them, even if they could, which you can bet they’re not close enough to do. As for his inner circle, they didn’t plug his diarrhea of the thumbs at any point during the election when they actually had something to lose. So again, why would they now that they don’t?
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Because now that he won and he is the actual President-Elect, it would be nice if someone on his team considered diplomacy more important than serving Trump’s ego.
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Burning a flag is the respectful way to dispose of it when that symbol has been desecrated. Why burning a flag as a protest gesture is so contentious is not, as it appears, that those burning it hate what the symbol stands for. The deeper implication is that those in charge of the country have desecrated the flag themselves by failing the ideals it was supposed to represent.
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That is one way to look at it. As I said, I think it’s a vile interpretation of the action, but to paraphrase Evelyn Hall, I’ll defend to the death your right say it.
Also, given how the default tone of the internet is more often than not assumed hostile and personal, I feel I should say something. I don’t consider the people who burn flags to be ignorant or vile people - or rather they might be, but not on that act alone - only that I consider that act to be ignorant and vile. As I have myself been guilty of other instances of ignorance and vile behavior in the course of my life, I will not be throwing any stones, so to speak.
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Co-sponsored by one Sen. Clinton, Hillary Rodham [D-NY].
I suppose you could make the case that this is, you know, only for those times when you’re burning the flag with intent to promote violence, but who the fuck gets to decide that? Upshot: “…fined not more than $100,000, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both,” or - if you burn somebody else’s flag on Federal land - “…fined not more than $250,000, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.”
So maybe Trump and Clinton can find some common ground, here.
On the other ha-
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Ohhhh. . . “loss of citizenship!”. . . that’s great, maybe we can torture them too!
Yes sir, the ACLU is going to be very busy for the next several years.
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Thank you for that reminder that I need to put a check in the mail.
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In the end, it’s a disagreement over the meaning of the act. Just as some people find certain words offensive that others do not, both have the right to their interpretation, a right enshrined in the First Amendment (something I mention because I use the word right here very carefully, to mean a practical freedom of which one can be unjustly deprived, not the moral justification behind it).
Anyway, I suggest we agree to disagree or make a new thread, as this is somewhat tangential to the topic at hand (and yes, I aided the slight unintentional derail).
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These people have always viewed diplomacy with contempt. I expect they’re all giddy that they finally have a strongman who can spit in the face of every other nation and trample the minorities that are here. The GOP leadership hasn’t cared about consequences for their actions for a good while since they’re certain their ideology’s god-given and perfect regardless of outcomes. It’s going to be an ugly few years with single party rule.
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It would be nice. It would have been nice if he hadn’t won at all. Reality is not that nice, but I sympathize.
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How exactly does this work anyway? How do you become persona non grata in your own country? Where are you supposed to go? How are you supposed to get there (after all, your passport if you had one is now invalid)?
Oh, right, Trumpverse logic.
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He’s the Minority President-Elect. Do you really think that’s wise?
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People PLEASE do not forget to vote Dem in the mid terms!!!
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