Something can be two things.
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Smells of desperation
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You’re not wrong, it’s just poor thinking on my part.
I’m in over my head today and I’m getting out while the getting’s good.
Cheers!
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I think this is the only shape it could possibly take because in reality there is no “American” that actually fits the white supremacist’s ideal. It can only be managed as “our buddies” because there is no real identity there and never really was. It’s an identity defined by absence, what is not there unites them.
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I doubt that. The implications of removing jurisdiction over such people are massive. Your basically arguing that states and federal government lack the right to even deport them. The district courts have thus far been pretty unwilling to play ball with Trump. And again plain language. And that’s a gold fringe on the flag level arguement.
I just don’t see it.
No. But I don’t have any confidence it would even make it that far. You’d need a plausible legalistic reason for it to hit the supreme Court. And you’d need enough justices to want to take it up. And then you’d need enough justices to discard any pretence of law.
More over I doubt Trump has the attention span. To keep pushing it. This is a much, much clearer thing than the Muslim ban. It has far more grounds for challenge. Even a lot of eight wingers and right wing states will likely oppose this, especially if they try a jurisdiction arguement that directly inpacts soveriegnty or a states ability to administrate itself internally. Any validation of this by the Supreme Court likely straight nukes the authority of the court. And if there’s one thing the courts, even partisan ones are interested in. It’s in preserving their own validity. As @reactionabe pointed out. It’s incredibly unlikely any court would voluntarily undermine Marbury V Madison. Validating this requires either laughable legal arguements or invalidating the Constitution as a legal document. Both of which effectively render the Supreme Court moot. Power likes to hang onto power. This would be like Congress passing a law that says they aren’t allowed to pass laws.
The court almost certainly punts.the lower courts almost certainly invalidate it.
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Or three or four or five, sure. But there’s a huge space in between this kind of clumsily obvious pandering to his base and “the literal end of democracy as we know it”.
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Given Trump’s propensity for loyalty oaths, if he gets to remake the rules on who can be a citizen, you can bet that will definitely be one of the conditions.
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the Kavanaugh Supreme Court
I’m ready to have you exiled.
It is a Robert’s Supreme Court. Facts are more important to speak to than scare tactics.
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Let’s not lose Larry and Hutch.
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This is yet another reason why the powers of the U.S. presidency need to be more carefully defined and far more limited.
And of course it’s also another reason to impeach Trump and any other racist, fascist scumbag who crawls into the White House.
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We are on the verge of not being a constitutional republic. The constitution is just a piece of paper and it burns very fast.
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No, even if they do the unthinkable and uphold it, it remains an executive order (like the Muslim ban) and can be erased by the next administration. The real terror would be the precedent set. Obvious, plain text articles of the Constitution would then be open to evisceration at the whim of this or future administrations. You know, like they do in the places Trump idealizes, Russia, Saudi, Turkey, maybe now adding Brazil… Yeah, really sad and depressing.
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Folks, the “this is the end of America” stuff can stop. I’m as far left as they come, and I’m not worried about this pandering in the slightest, it’ll not succeed at any court level if he tries to pull it. It’s directly controlled by the 14th amendment, and no amount of blowing smoke up the skirt of your racist base is going to change that.
And I’m with Mindysan:
100% truth right there, a big giant bomb of it. It’s not “rights only for American citizens,” it’s “rights endowed by our creator,” “inalienable rights.” They apply to all. Everyone. Fuck the folks who say they don’t apply to anyone outside our borders. One day, that will be the standard in how we treat everyone.
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Yup, addressed by @SheiffFatman above. My brain isn’t working today.
The ongoing project to expand the limits of executive power scares the piss out of me, but it’s hardly unique to Trump. I think you encapsulated it nicely when you wrote:
Most of the Constitutionsal rights as outlined apply to people present in the US, legal residents wherever they are in the globe, people in US custody regardless of citizenship or legal status. The exceptions are things like actual citizenship, voting rights etc. For purely practical reasons. Doesn’t much make sense to let everyone globally vote in our elections because they’re human.
It’s is muddy enough to argue around though. It could stand to be firmer, clearer, and more explicit. But the amendments intended to do that have been spinning their wheels since the 60’s.
I’m not sure I follow. If (and I agree with you that it is far from certain whether Trump will follow through with this) Trump issues an executive order, it will be challenged and almost certainly struck down in the lower courts, up to and including the Circuit level. If (and again this is an “if”, most definitely not a “when”) that happens and the SC has the five justices I mentioned, I think there is a very good chance of it being accepted and approved by the Court.
I take your point about the Court protecting its own authority, but I also think there are plenty of ways for them to structure this as and “exception” that doesn’t undermine Marbury or cede authority in any way they don’t actually want to cede. It wouldn’t be like Trump would be circumventing their authority, they’d be giving their blessing.
To be clear, I don’t think this is the most likely outcome, I am simply arguing that it is far from a foregone conclusion that such an order is dead in the water should Trump decide to pursue it. If worse comes to worse (and it’s already pretty fucking bad) and Trump gets another justice, I’m not positive our conceptions of what is and isn’t inviolate will hold.
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If he times this executive order just before election day, you’re going to see the problem with it when armed whites are going to get violent on anyone who “doesn’t look like a citizen” when they show up to vote.
Or worse, if the people denaturalized in such a fashion become a prop for one of Trump’s “millions of cases of voter fraud” rants while their lives get ruined by the federal government before the executive order gets overturned by the courts (if it even does).
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Not only that, but bascially dismissing anything in the Constitution. Trump thinks he’s a dictator. Remember when Bush the Lesser called the Constitution, “just a dirty rag?” Here we have another conservative taking it one step further and rendering into a dirty rag. But NFL players can’t kneel during the anthem? We are in a Constituional crisis folks. I’m not so sure if Progressives win the midterms, trump and conservatives basically refuse to step down. I mean, who’s going to stop them from doing that? They have already done everything else and we just wring our hands and tremble. But nobody does anything about it.
I know right, where are those “Oath Keeping” 3%ers when you actually need 'em?
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