Far be it from me to defend this dipshit in anything he says or does, but despite all the other jus solis-accepting nations on the map, there is in fact no other country “in the world where a person comes in, has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States”.
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I’m glad you agree with me, but I have to say that not being concerned about what’s happening with the current administration is a bit blinkered. It might not be the end of America, but the attack on our norms is something to be concerned with. The rise of the white nationalist movement to such prominence is concerning. The attempts to subvert our democratic norms and the attempts to target particular groups for curtailing their voting rights is deeply concerning. There are MANY things to be deeply alarmed about in this specific historic moment.
I was struck this interview yesterday and just how far white nationalism has been embraced by a mainstream political party:
We SHOULD be concerned about this, because it’s led to 14 (maybe more) assasination attempts, and the murder of 11 people for being the wrong faith… and that’s just THIS week.
I get what you’re saying - let’s not overreact, but at the same time, we need to take history into account and understand how dangerous these political ideas are and the sort of violence they can foment. We can certainly hope that our norms will protect us, but it would be equally foolish to pretend like any of this is normal or can’t lead to a more dangerous place. Trump might very well be throwing this stuff out there in order to get out his base, but we’ve already seen how this sort of language can easily translate into violence.
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It really is a defining characteristic of the US (and nearly all ‘New World’ countries.)
…and assault rifles. /s
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This is the key takeaway. Actions like this raise flags because they signal real intent to tear down norms and institutions of liberal democracy, which means pushback is needed even if their chances of following through are slim.
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Is what you are saying that there is only one US?
Because, if so, I mean… the world is having a hard enough time with just the one.
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If Trump gets another pick, where would the center of gravity lie in the Supreme Court? Closer to Kavanaugh or closer to Roberts?
What does that mean in a practical sense, though? Does the 4th Amendment’s prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure apply to someone in, say, Pakistan or Nigeria? Does the 2nd Amendment apply to people in the UK? Do people in China have the right to a jury trial? If so, how do we go about applying those rights across national borders?
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Yeah, on one hand we should remember that Trump is not a God King who can enact his will by edict, because that keeps us from feeling totally helpless and hopeless in resistance. But on the other we should not be complacent about what he’s capable of doing.
Like most things Trump does, it’s not actually about the nonsensical surface thing, it’s about political posturing toward some other goal. Presumably he knows that he can’t repeal the 14th, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be anticipating a fight.
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I’m not as familiar with Kavanaugh’s history but Gorsuch has written a lot of judicial opinions which take a limited view of the scope of the power of the executive branch. My abiding hope is that one day, whether it’s this issue or another one, one of Trump’s executive orders is challenged and makes it’s way to the Supreme Court, who shoots it down. And it’s Gorsuch who writes the majority opinion.
I mostly just want to see Trump’s head explode with anger.
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This is the Armageddon scenario. The “HOLY SHIT!! Our country is falling apart!” kind of thing. And exactly what I would think he would love to pull off.
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Damnit, you had to post that map. Canada was getting by just fine without advertising the fact that we have birthright citizenship. Now I’m just waiting for the Soros-funded caravan of California liberals heading north, seeking a better life for their children in Canada.
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nice? where you getting that? the US has never been “nice” lol … this is a nation of shitheads with a shithead for a leader. I’m one of the people who’s citizenship is now brought into question. What does this mean for me? I’ve never been to the place my parents were born, I don’t speak the language, I’m not welcome there. Where should I seek asylum?
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Not people who have never held a gun or are afraid of getting fired.
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We could stop kidnapping people in other countries to have them tortured by other countries on our behalf. I say start there and work outward.
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Trump says a lot of things. This thing is especially stupid and evil, but that’s it. He’s got as good a chance of ending birthright citizenship with an executive order as he has of being able to do a standing jump over Trump Tower.
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It used to be a lot more common in the Old World: the UK, for example, had it until 1981 1983. And until 1963 it not only had a common nationality with identical rights of entry and abode across the UK itself and all of its colonies, but also recognised a supranational citizenship (“Commonwealth citizenship”) with equivalent rights for former colonies.
Which is why I get so annoyed when the Windrush generation are referred to as immigrants: until at earliest 1963 (when the Caribbean colonies started to gain independence), they were British citizens (to be precise, “Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies”), with exactly the same status as someone who could trace their family’s residence in Britain back to Hengest and Horsa, Maelgwn Gwynedd, or Fergus Mór mac Eirc.
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Eh, it actually is (was) evolving to a greater “niceness.” Founded by slave-owning white males who rejected women, POC, LGBT, etc as voting citizens, and has actually made significant strides over the last 250 years or so. In fact, having made those strides is a large part of the right wing panic we are seeing now. I am not ready to say that evolution is over. It is in a moment of crisis right now, and our future is certainly at risk, but to throw it out as not worth saving is a bit harsh.
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Do tell, why exactly would we need to change citizenship rules under those circumstances?
Meanwhile, far from inspiring any sort of push-back from his lapdogs in Congress, Republicans are eagerly lining up to back this bullshit up with (equally bullshit) legislation:
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don’t put words in my fingers. i meant only exactly what I said. i don’t doubt any of that stuff you mentioned happened, but this sort of argument won’t convince me americans aren’t shitheads. As an american, I’m sure that even I am a shithead due to the fact of being raised here. People are always worth saving, but thinking that a government run by companies is worth saving is naive at best. I proffer, there’s nothing to save. Every one of the things you mentioned was a bloody fight. Why? Because of the shitheads.
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And the constitutional workaround is simple. The Fourteenth amendment guarantees citizenship to all persons born in the US. All that the Administration has to do is to advance the argument that ‘they’re not persons, they’re illegals.’ The amendment does not define who is and is not a person.
(That argument worked just fine until the 1860’s for what we now call persons of color. “They are not persons. They are property,” was the law of the land.)
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