U.S. Thirst for Iraqi and Venezuelan Oil

#21
#22

AP News? Thanks, but I don’t have high hopes for that piece, given that it was an AP story in which I saw Guaido referred to unironically as “president elect.”

4 Likes
#23

probably “aging billionaire throws propaganda concert as convenient distraction” is the signficiant part

1 Like
#24

Also, it’s a common misconception for Usians but it should be remarked, the Venezuelan economy is still primarily capitalist, including the banking sector. You can probably guess which industries were nationalized…

4 Likes
#25

Is very kind of you to let say try to get more information about the issue.

The Other in hundreds of hours of Chavez TV and Radio speeches are ANY other Venezuelan that don’t agree with him or his policies no matter the colour of their skin, sorry to be blunt but your understanding is flawed. Both Chavez and Maduro are the architects of the biggest humanitarian and economic crisis in our history, It is hard to resume and put to words +15 years of history and tragedy. try to simplify it and put some racial struggle as the main component is hyperbolic at best and mostly plain not real.

For example; Just today at the border with Brasil +14 people were shot and 1 woman killed, all of them Pemones (read “of indigenous blood” as you so colorfully describe it) by the National Guard under order of the High military command and Maduro itself, as they were protesting the blockade of humanitarian Brasilian supplies that is mounting at the border, the guard came to the spot on a Bus came down and start shooting with no mediation. They were taken to Boa Vista for medical attention due to the fact that the medical center in the Venezuelan side is practically abandoned and without any supplies for years now. They were there for a few days now protesting… this is not an isolated event, the regime as a long history of abuse and mistreatment of our aborigines even strip the aborigines congressmen of their spot in the national assembly under a bogus and still unproven allegation of fraud in their elections.

About the “other elite, white-favoring politicians” this is so wrong in some many levels is bonkers… I will not try to debate this, I will just say that the myth of the racial divide and the racial resentment in Venezuela is BS from the Chavista fear-mongering propaganda machine. That narrative is not used inside our borders you hear that fairy tale in English and some times in Spanish (in Spain with the Chavista financed party Podemos tried and fail to get a Chavista movement to gain traction and eventually power) We are and always have been a mixed culture a wonderful combination of many cultures with a vastly tolerant and healthy society, There are racist people of course but they are alone and highly frowned upon and there is no place for that in our everyday society. My skin is quite dark, my dad is even darker my mom is skin is fairly light, my grandfather was Spanish my Nona was half aborigen my great grandfather was Dutch and my great-grandmother daughter of slaves… I’m from Petare in Caracas the center of the biggest slump in South America, just in case you are a white dude with money straw man peak his head anywhere.

The skin color of our National Assembly (the center of this lawful movement) is quite diverse but we don’t keep that statistics at hand due the zero F give on that kind of stuff.

To further clarify there is no right wing left wing struggle here there as never been one. the past 40 years of stable democracy were lead by to Social democrat parties, they keep a very liberal rule with universal healthcare and tuition-free Education for all, no matter the skin color. there were not perfect but there is no way to compare the two without the huge number of this crisis. So the Chavismo tale of empowerment was short-lived nonsustainable upkeep in the living conditions. the present is the biggest prove.

You said: Are you saying this is what the U.S. is doing by trying to replace the current democratically elected leader of Venezuela with a clearly right-leaning, U.S.-elite friendly one? That doesn’t make sense to me, because as in so many other countries, and for so many decades now, the U.S. has been undercutting “a Bunch of Socialists” in Venezuela because their policies threaten U.S. profits and U.S. state-led control of the region, not helping that Bunch “get Power.”

Let me do a few corrections

“the current democratically elected leader of Venezuela” no he is not the last election was a sham. Almost all democratic countries in the world said that last year in May.

“with a clearly right-leaning” Again there is no Right Wing party in the Coalition if so please Name ONE.

“get Power.” The method to get the power of our National Assembly is completely legal and the articles in our constitution are quite simple is this regard.

The US is playing an Electoral gamble with us Trump is selling the fight against socialism but he is not doing that in actuality, he is helping Socialist replace a usurper head of a kleptocracy with no popular support. is a good gamble Most folks in the US have (clearly) no idea of what is happening here so he can sell this wherever he wants and the Republicans will eat and the Democrats are gonna be hurt by it.

2 Likes
#26

He is the Interim President under our constitution articles 233, 333 and 350. There is No irony needed just a healthy amount of reading and some listening to actual Venezuelans.

1 Like
#27

Thank for the further explanations.

So Trump doesn’t realize that Guaido is actually a socialist? If that’s the case, I guess he’s in for a big surprise! (Not that I think that’s at all the case.)

So what do you think about U.S. intervention (coups, assassinations, installation of favored leaders, etc.) in so many dozens of other countries, including in your region? Do you think those U.S. efforts have been in the best interests of ordinary people in those countries? And why haven’t you mentioned what many others see as the crippling effects on Chavez and Maduro governments, and on the Venezuelan economy generally, of U.S. sanctions?

I’m wondering why you seem so unconcerned about U.S. efforts in your country.

6 Likes
#28

Guaidó is a socialist— yet from what I can glean of Voluntad Popular’s platform, they seek market-based reform and support private property(read: land.)

So is he a socialist or a capitalist? I mean anyone is free to call themselves whatever the hell they want but market-based reform is not socialist.

Additionally, from the reports I’ve been reading from the Venezuelan left are generally opposed to Maduro AND Voluntad Popular, and a significant quantity of the unrest in the streets is driven by those folks. Maduro’s government certainly passes the smell test for con-man authoritarianism at this point, but the picture of the Venezuelan opposition as more or less unified behind Guaidó is false, and every left source I have is opposed to US intervention.

4 Likes
#29

You are most Welcome, and sorry if my tone is harsh or condescending… English is not my first language and this topic is quite close to my family and my country suffering. so all my filters are a bit lax.

Well, I’m pretty sure that they know the political inclination of Guidó and the Opposition coalition, but they just don’t care, the money is on the irrevocable nature of the Socialists Maduro’s Regime and the former government that Chavez held.

I’m not happy with any involvement of any country inside ours. I’m Not pro-US in any way, in fact, I’m quite the opposite, but I’m not a fanatic, I know my history and the impact of the actions of the US in our neighbors.

BUT, this regime is way-way worst than anything we have ever endured, economist and historians tell us about the years post the war of independence been pale in comparison. SO, I’m not angry about the regime been push around and cornered, his stole money been seized and his properties abroad taken away… not a bit (that is what the 90% of the sanctions had done, I don’t know if you have actually read them, they are in the treasury and state department websites) The recent ones are the ones that are directed to the nation as a whole and we know we are gonna feel it in a couple of months.

In general, the sanctions are widely misrepresented and vaguely used to further victimize the regime. That again held the sole responsibility of this crisis and the suffering it as produced.

Furthermore, this is not a US endeavor, this is a multinational push the US is the louder one due to the political interest and electoral gain it may provide. There is a general agreement in South America El Grupo de Lima is the main protagonist in that regard.

5 Likes
#30

This topic is about U.S. intervention in Venezuela, not “what is happening in Venezuela” per se

1 Like
#31

Juan Guaidó Is a Social Democrat.

His party is Social Democrat, they are not Socialist (like Cuba or the way this regime tries to call itself) there no ambiguity in been a Social Democrat and implement Capitalism, in fact, this regime call itself socialist and rip their shirts in anger against the capitalistic US influence but our economy is driven by capital and the market rules every aspect of the economic rhythms of our society. The state is highly interventionist and the regime own several monopolies and companies but there is no workers ownership of industries or bans on private ownership. On the Contrary, the main figureheads of the regime are prominent business owners here and abroad.

The opposition is under a coalition of parties, all of them are Leftwing several Social Democrats many members of the International Socialist. VP been one of them. VP is a small party and a relatively new one His leader is in Jail. They are what they are because of their leader Leopoldo Lopez he and Henrique Capriles founded a party in 20 something years ago call Primero Justicia Leopoldo left PJ and formed VP he was part of the primaries to elect the opposition candidate against Chavez Capriles won (Leopoldo endorsed him after his numbers did not were sufficient to win, He knows that the goal was to defeat Chavez so he step aside) Capriles came close but loose, Chavez died later that year. In that primaries, all the leaders of the opposition were voted and that benchmark is the only way to measure the actual ceiling of votes of each potential candidate has, So all of them want to claim to the position of Leader but Leopoldo is in Jail and Capriles was ban from elections due to a bogus fine he actually prove in court to be fabricated but keep standing. At this crossroads, the opposition divided and with no clear leader put his hopes in a New face with no political baggage, and there is Guaidó. There is no significant political force in the opposition that is not behind Him.

The unrest you speak of is not driven by a single party, the coalition calls to the streets to a march or a gathering/concentration in a point of the city, the regime armed forces waits until is over and then systematically attacks the rear of the demonstration, many times without any provocation. The other more dangerous way is simply to block the way of the demonstration and push them back shooting them with rubber bullets and live ammo until the injured and the death scared everybody and the concentration breaks up, that way more of 2000 people were killed in the last 3 years.

One thing is correct, No one wants a military intervention, not even Guaidó. He reserves a direct answer but he is not saying that he is for it either. We assume that in his position he can’t take that off the table due the heavy consequence it provides to the Venezuelan Military. Is a measure of last resort, one that no one wants.

#32

OK, but the so call intervention is not happening in a Vacuum. So what is happening in Venezuela is key to discuss it.

Furthermore to know what is happening in Venezuela is to know that there is no actual Intervention by the US right Now, There is a possibility of some form of multilateral action. But as right now no intervention or Military action is happening by the US or any other country unilaterally.

#33

The clock is ticking on other problems.

With the economic problems driving gold mining, wildcat miners are spreading out into areas with malaria, many trained medical people have left the country, and medicine from the outside is scarce.

Venezuela: malaria
In Venezuela, economic collapse and a lack of medicine have caused a resurgence of infectious disease — and researchers worry that could lead to a continent-wide outbreak of diseases like malaria.

@ 26:08 to 34:00 in the full episode.

#34
4 Likes
#35

Um, what? First of all, sanctions are a form of that. So is seizing Venezuelan assets abroad. So is sending “humanitarian aid” that it knows Maduro won’t accept, an act the U.S. can then use to further demonize him. And those are just for starters.

4 Likes
#37

We define Intervention as dudes here with guns… The sanctions since the Obama administration are directed at individuals, member of the regime. Their personal assets in the US their families and frontmen. Most Venezuelans are Ok with that, in fact, I dare to say that the only ones affected by that are those guys… no one else.

The regime had been cut off from the Nation assets under the request of Guaidó and our National Assembly (NA), the access to those assets are now in control of the Interim President and the NA. The EU the UK and other countries are doing the same due to the fact they see Maduro as what he is; a usurper holding the executive power illegally and against the constitutional order in Venezuela.

The US is not the only player here, and all this retribution is the making of the hypocrisy of the regime that sells the anti-imperialism in their propaganda but loves that sweet convenience that the US and the money gives.


Crap I deleted my reply to @smulder by mistake gonna put it here due to limits of the board

Yeah, still there is not.

Several presidents are repeating variations of the same line. including the ones from Chile, Colombia, Brasil… so are those countries intervening in Venezuela too, is there a line of countries waiting their turn? The US has a bigger megaphone, a bigger stick and the current POTUS is… let’s say not famous for his restraint.

The goal is to take away the support of the military that keeps the regime, The interim President had offered a comprehensive amnesty law to give all military personnel that has not been involved in crimes against humanity a legal framework to get out of this without violence and with the due diligence of a new government not looking for revenge.

Even a former General and Congressman the former top spy of Chavez “el Pollo” Carvajal had taken a deal with the DEA and the National Assembly calling the military to abandon Maduro and take the deal Guaido is offering. SO the strategy is more or least working; the threat of escalation is too much for the 1500 generals and the 1500 calories a day army.

Got to watch some Colombian TV or and read Local Newspapers (online because the regime has a monopoly on paper and they simply don’t sell paper to “the enemy of the people” so our 100 years old newspaper El Nacional is out of print and Venezuelans must read it using a VPN in their web) to get in the loop.

#38

They’re in Cúcuta now, taking meetings with Guaidó. They’ll be crossing the border soon enough.

3 Likes
#39

From the brother of Pat Tillman:

1 Like
#40

The brother of Pat Tillman:

As one of the soldiers who illegally invaded Iraq, this scares me. I know an illegal coup/invasion when I see one. . . . As was the case in Iraq, there are no legal or moral grounds to intervene in the affairs of Venezuela and no international laws to support such an intervention. There is nothing in the Constitution that sanctions meddling in the elections of a foreign country, and nothing in the Venezuelan constitution that legitimizes self-appointed presidents. Venezuela is not a threat. Venezuela is not firing missiles at the United States, attacking our allies or invading the U.S. with troops.

99.9% of Americans: “Oh look, Trump farted in public again!!” :eyes:

Me: 99.9% of my fellow adult citizens are actually fucking children. :angry:

2 Likes
#41

I find Hilarious the insistence and explaining of this matters as if We here are blind and deaf.

Almost 50 of the 100 congressmen in our Assembly are there too and due to the blatant censorship and persecution of the independent media by the regime, Most people here got his news directly from our congressman and women that are doing their job there in our behave. We know a lot more of these matters and we got a BSometer calibrated with 20 years of experience, how much time did you spend a day the last 20 years learning about this issue?

How about me or any other Venezuelan trying to enlighten you about a quite simple issue in your politics as let’s say… Private Healthcare or Endemic Racism I got a bunch of opinions in those matters I bet I can copy-paste a lot of articles to “make my point” to you that you are most likely wrong about it all and I’m sure you are gonna be delighted.

And if they come if that (guys with guns) is what it comes to Us here we are gonna be the first ones to know and We are gonna deal with that in kind. We got this challenge to all those that are so willing to teach us about our tragedy; Come on live in our shoes for a bit is quite an eye-opener, in the other hand if you want to help you are most welcome.