Yep - I didn’t include the info about the edit because it wasn’t specifically the Russian government. If you check out the history for that wiki page, you’ll see they’ve been waging a mini info-war for a while!
1 Like
so you asked a question that you had the answer to? THANKS PROFESSOR
2 Likes
Not only that, but he made a pedantic distinction for an aircraft which doesn’t have the ability to make the kind of zoom climb that would make an absolute ceiling substantially higher than the service ceiling.
4 Likes
We’re arguing with the brightest minds, obviously.
2 Likes
The article mentions, for instance, the 1,200 metre range of an air to air missile. That’s what … 3,500 feet.
So even if the SU25 got to 30,000 feet by some feat, that would leave a margin of 500 feet for that particular missile.
Everything in the aggressor system of attack would be operating on the extreme edge of capability; high chance (like, almost certain) of failure.
2 Likes
My POV on this is the Russians are practicing a nice misinformation / confusion parade.
They’re throwing rubbish out that they know will make headlines around the world, that they know will be debunked by anyone who knows anything, and they’re just laughing at the mess they’ve made.
They’re pulling the marionette strings, they’re firing off chaff, to confuse and confound efforts to convince the western masses of Russia’s complicity in the whole affair.
Bear in mind that the Russians are very, very good at propaganda, which takes all shapes and forms.
2 Likes
If Russians were that good, we here would now be speaking Russian and be proud of it. Cf. the annexed US territories, namely Hawaii.
The best way where the domestic propaganda differences show is in the civil defense comparison. We here got talks about imperialists, and American kids got Bert the Atomic Turtle. No wonder the Eastern Bloc lost.
That said, Russian propaganda is not entirely inept. However a part of the mess and chaos can be plausibly explained by people talking out of prejudices and incomplete information (for which there is no prerequisite for it being controlled and orchestrated, a conventional chaos is equally plausible). That a lot of the stuff that should deserve waving off as crazy is being reported is then a problem of the western media (which also talk about what they don’t know squat about and happily parrot anything that brings viewers).
Now there is a version out, which does not actually sound entirely implausible, that the Ukrainians could’ve screwed up a training session. It’s atypical that it got translated and made it to local media as it is insufficiently anti-Russian.
(Sorry for some transliteration mistakes, I am transliterating names from a translation from original Russian and am too tired to refer to the original.) The 156th antiaircraft missile regiment was training covering of a group of troops at the Donetsk outskirts. The training involved setting up the vehicles, following targets, and go through all the procedures of taking down a target, without actual firing of a missile. The commanders however got their launch keys. From Kubalkino, Nikolayev, two Su-25 were sent to provide aerial reconnaisance and designate test targets. The battery operators, located at near the village of Zaproshchenskoe, were tracking one of the fighters, and apparently it got into the line of sight with the Boeing and stayed sufficiently together for long enough. And formed one spot together on the radar.[1] The rest is the story of a confused electronics (which had the choice of two targets in the same azimuth and settled on the brighter radar reflection) and not-explained-yet missile launch command. At 2130 the SBU(? state security? not sure about correct acronym) employees took away the battery commander and crew for questioning and there are no further data.
This would match the story of that Spanish air traffic controller. Which may or may not mean something; may be two truths or a double-hoax.
[1] The actual data shown on the radar screen depend on the mode. Remember the radars show 3d situation in a 2d form; the classical plot is azimuth-distance, where a more distant aircraft would be shown in larger distance (though in shorter range and higher pulse repetition rate an out-of-range echo can shown as in-range one!), but there is also the option of azimuth-height_angle (x-axis is the horizontal angle of the antenna, y-axis is the vertical one, brightness is the reflected signal intensity) where two aircraft of different speed and distance and altitude can be aligned for long enough to cause problems. The semiactive homing then adds its role, as the illuminating beam in such target configuration can light up both closer and more distant target simultaneously, and the missile will pick the brighter one. Add the factor that the crews did not train full-spectrum of operations since 2001 when a similar mishap downed that Tu-154, and we have a quite plausible recipe for trouble.
Still does not explain the actual launch. My hypothesis for this scenario is that someone poorly understood a command sent over a crackly staticky radio.
Source here, enjoy crude (and cruddy) machine translation.
http://www.prvnizpravy.cz/zpravy/politika/v-kyjeve-existuje-verze-o-vlastnim-sestreleni-boeingu/
Also, another article, a bit wider geopolitical.
And, a rarely sane look at the whole mess.
Everything you just wrote about Russia can equally be said about the US. In fact, the US government with its compliant mass media is the greatest propaganda machine the world has ever seen.
1 Like
My final post on this thread will be to leave this link: www.moonofalabama.org/2014/07/ukraine-no-interest-in-investigating-mh17.html
Okay, one more link: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/23/us-intelligence-evidence-russia-paul-craig-roberts/
Sources as reliable as the source of the sources
Come now my good man. Clearly that missile was just standing there and the airplane ran into its fist, head first. I mean, the missile was in its own airspace, just minding it’s business when… BAM.
3 Likes
This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.
