Agriculture, finance, industry, steel… he took over other industries, but maybe you could make a good argument for state run mining and transportation.
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I really don’t want to make this into an “no you” argrument, but most of these things apply to Maduro? especially the deathsquads. the fact that he is not very popular does not preclude him from being a fascist.
I get that you fear that this is western society ganging up on communist venezuela, but fact of the matter is that Maduro has acted like the stereotypical fascist dictator for the last 6 years. nearly all potential problems with Guaidó are dwarfed by the actual proven terribleness of Maduro.
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I was chatting with a friend in Colombia earlier. She is about 6 hours from the Venezuela border. She has seen violence come across the border in the past as well as looting and rapes of locals. She is terrified Chinese troops and US troops are going to show up and destroy everything while swinging their dicks around.
The TV and news is nothing but discussing this situation. Everyone is holding their breath in fear of what is to come. No one can do anything to change or avoid whatever happens. They can just wait in fear.
She was asking what my President will do to protect them. That was pretty awful to explain that he might do nothing and that it was to appease a bunch of his racist voters that want to see the rest of the world burn.
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I’ve removed several posts here derailing the conversation by targeting specific posters and their data, rather than discussing the issue at hand. Let’s stick to the topic of the post, not the posters going forward. Thanks.
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Because it worked great in Libya and Iraq. I do understand that Middle East is different, but damn, are we that naive?
I personally do think that Guaido is probably better to lead the country, but this will just be another war where thousands of people die so that oil companies can make some money.
If you think otherwise then why aren’t we removing Saudi regime? Because they play nice: they allowed oil companies to do whatever they want, they spend money by purchasing our weapons. Anyway, nothing good will come out of this.
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Yes, specifically before 1999, the moment those woes inspired the Bolivarian Revolution to elect Hugo Cháves and establis the current government Maduro leads. This government was pretty successful at improving the situation until 2014, when a number of things happened including the US imposing sanctions. Though I agree it is tragic that they were unable to diversify their economy, but that is unfortunately pretty tall order to accomplish over one or two decades when you start where Venezuela did in 1999.
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This is not what’s happening, however, starting with the fact that Venezuela is a primarily capitalist democracy.
The west doesn’t actually care that much about ‘communism’ beyond rhetorical purposes (see: China, a nation with a significantly greater command economy than Venezuela, and also our largest business partner)
They sure as fuck care about oil, tho.
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This is a suspicious claim to me. According to wikipedia:
The Carter Center turned down Maduro’s invitation to send an observation team on election day, as did other election observing institutions.
And nowhere can I find any international observers who called the election legitimate. It seems that most observers refused to even observe since the ground rules of the election were so absurd.
Please tell me what I am missing.
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According to who? Always look at who is saying these things. What I have heard and seen from sources on the ground is that our media is massively misrepresenting the situation in Venezuela, just as they did in 2002 inside and out of Venezuela.
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For curiosity’s sake, who’s the “our” in “our largest business partner”? Is “the West” a unified trading bloc now?
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And about “diversifying” the post-Maduro economy in a way that benefits large Western multinationals.
The same two things can be said about Russia’s and China’s aspirations in the event of Maduro prevailing, except with crony oligarchs from those countries reaping the benefits when they force Maduro out of his Dutch Disease delerium (or just force him out entirely in favour of a more pliable and charismatic member of his party – I get the sense that everyone is sick of this bumbling clown).
It looks like whichever of them wins, the bulk of the Venezuelan people will get retaliatory political violence, austerity, and semi-colonial status. Better than chaos and uncertainty and the war that will determine the victor, but only slightly.
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I assume he’s referring to the U.S., which also makes the West as a whole China’s largest trading partner:
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Honest question…are you currently in Venezuela or have you been there recently?
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Absolutely. Orinoco is a sensitive eco system, and oil projects are worthless without extraction licenses. Some of these deals were negotiated with the previous corrupt governments and were inequitable.
So I didn’t have a problem with the Exxon nationalization, nor the Vestey ranch which had terrible stories going. Labour and indigenous population abuse stories were common.
I thought the cement thing silly. But the reality is that competition was not what you would hope for in much of Venezuela before Chavez. None of it is indefensible.
Capital flight does not have to be justified to happen.
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Like f’real, that’s not even remotely my point, but this is grade A quote chopping.
The parenthetical was clearly an example of the statement preceding it.
At what point are you going to provide evidence for these Maduro paramilitary death squads? Literally not even the opposition sources I read are making this claim. Was it in a trump tweet or something?
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Opposition demonstrators prepare Molotov cocktails during clashes with soldiers loyal to Maduro.
Matias Delacroix/AFP/Getty Images
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No. I would counter that I do an unusual amount of diligence researching my sources and following rabbit holes, and this is primarily an American / Western forum and my topic and arguments primarily concerning how American / Western media misrepresent things.
I follow activists in Venezuela, I corroborate what they say pretty obsessively, and I volunteer with people who have been down there.
Edited because I was a bit mean there. I’m getting heated, this is a tragedy happening all over again.
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No, I was honestly curious what you meant.
It’s a little thing probably, but China’s not the largest trading partner of the U.S. and when people say it is, it can give people a false sense of proportion about what’s what in global trade. Carry on with the main thread.
He provided a link above. From the reputable sources quoted in the Wikipedia entry (e.g. Human Rights Watch), these “colectivos” aren’t simply peaceful community welfare organisations but also have shady criminal and violent aspects. They seem to operate like Hamas does in terms of general strategy.
That’s not to say that Guaido wouldn’t set up his own similar organisations or that they wouldn’t also be magnets for thugs and criminals (including some of the exact same ones who currently work for the colectivos).
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