We finally have a trailer for Wakanda Forever

I did not know this.

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I can equally respect your position. The sad truth is that there are no good options, because the only good option would be to have Chadwick back playing this role for decades to come. :cry:

Also a good point. That’s not even the most glaring example. There hasn’t been a lot of Ed Norton’s Bruce Banner running around either. Those examples do support some of my concerns, though. Mark Ruffalo’s Banner is very different from Norton’s, and while Howard didn’t really get a chance to flesh out the character before Don Cheadle took over, there are also clear differences there. In those situations, though, it’s (I think) more accepted because Ed Norton and Terrence Howard are both still very much alive.

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I understand that Shuri becomes Black Panther, but she was the acting monarch of Wakanda while T’Challa was working with the Illuminati during the events of Infinity. He was still Black Panther; Shuri was essentially a figure head.

Here’s my thing: If people are so down with T’Challa being replaced, dare I say that no one cared about him in the first place. Comics try this all the time and learn a hard lesson every time.

Too often do publishers believe that superheroes are just the iconography. That Superman is just his symbol. That fans will read Batman regardless of who is in the suit. And every time they learn the same lesson.

We don’t care about the suit and web shooters that go “twhip.” We care about PETER PARKER. We don’t just want anyone in the Batsuit. We care about BRUCE WAYNE. Every time publishers try to move on from the classic characters, the audience always rejects it. The only time it worked was Wally West and that’s because the character was introduced in the 50s and became THE Flash in the 80s. Fans cared about Wally enough to accept the transition. Kyle Rayner? Not so much.

If you can wash your hands of T’Challa in favor of some Great Value version of Black Panther, again, dare I say that you never cared about him in the first place.

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Damn It Wesley Snipes GIF by IMDb

Which reminds me, another MCU recast… Blade. No longer Wesley Snipes (who was iconic in the films, but they were more on the campy side), but now Mahershala Ali… who is also one of my favorite actors working right now.

He looks amazeballs!

Also, we geeks love our debates, don’t we! :grimacing:

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I’m curious to see how they handle this.

Ali is a helluva talent. I’m just worried about Disney vampires.

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No, I don’t think you can say that, not really. Chadwick was one of Marvel’s best, most unexpected successes, and we genuinely loved him.
His horribly untimely death was a tragedy, and the public, I personally think, would prefer to see a series of BP films with him at the helm.
But, with the situation being what it is, at least we still get to see his sister and Wakanda in more movies in the future.
I know this is Marvel and Disney trying to cash in on what turned out to be a surprisingly good investment, but I, for one, am with it.

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Will they sparkle, do you think? :grimacing: :smile: Probably not!

Excited Wesley Snipes GIF by BBQ Films

I recently rewatched all 3 Blade films, so they’re pretty fresh in my head. It’ll be hard to top Snipes’ performance, but Ali really is a superb actor.

But I think part of the point that @dnealy is making is that the comics were T’Challa, too. That was who it was the whole time in the comics. He was never killed off or died and handed the mantle of the figure over. So that is kind of new territory that could easily be a mistake.

That’s part of the problem - balancing the cash grab with some respect for the mythos. It seems like lately with all the properties that Disney owns that the cash grab is winning out.

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I respectfully disagree, my friend.

I rock with Kirby’s vision of Marvel. And in Kirby’s vision T’Challa is as important and viable as any other character in the Marvel Universe. He singlehandedly beat the entire Fantastic Four in his debut.

This is just an extension of Disney’s narrative that they plucked the idea for Black Panther out of thin air. To Disney, the audience’s reaction to Wakanda Forever trumps any investment that fans like myself, who have read Black Panther for decades, have with the character.

Disney only cares about the optics, not the characters. Do you honestly think if Benedict Cumberbatch died between Spider-Man: No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness that Disney would have killed the character OFF SCREEN? Absolutely not.

T’Challa is just an interchangeable Black character that fills a diversity requirement for them. They don’t care the millions of Black kids that resonated with T’Challa as a character because as long as there’s just some Black Panther, it’s all cool. Wakanda Forever, right? “Did you get invested in T’Challa’s journey? Too bad, chump. Now fork over the money to Daddy Disney,” says Kevin Fiege.

I mean, for chrissakes, they were planning on bringing Killmonger back despite his ACTUAL death in the story because he was so popular.

Again, this is my appraisal of Disney, not you, my friend. If I come off aggressive, I apologize. I’m just a lifelong Black Panther fan that is livid at Disney. Lol

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They’re all super dope.

I still love the first one the most, though.

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Ah, this is where I’m going wrong.

I did not realise that T’Challa had been killed off, off-screen, so I now understand the upset.

My argument was about the reiteration of characters like Bond, Doctor Who, Spidey and Batman, who are of course just the suits, not the people.

So now the penny has dropped for me - I understand your argument and disappointment.

I spent my childhood with British comics - most notably 2000AD, and missed a lot of the early marvel stuff. When Stallone made a mockery of Dredd I was disappointed, so I understand some of the feels.

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I’m inclined to agree, though the over-the-top nature of the third one sort of charms me, too… The battle at the end is just fantastic and kind of ridiculous!

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Have you watched the 2000AD documentary?

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Yes, and I loved it.

My analogy with Dredd wasn’t the best, tho. The only Marvel I could get hold of as a kid was Spidey, and I can’t imagine him being anyone other than Peter Parker, so I understand better your initial post now.

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(Also, don’t tell anyone, okay. I sent them a future-shock and a Dredd short, but I never got published*. So, like I said, keep it under your hat, it’s not like anyone’s watching us).

*probably because they were a bit shit.

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Your analogy was just fine.

I’m just an angry fanboy that wishes the MCU gave a damn about the fans that sustained Marvel’s comic sales since the early 90s. As of late, it seems like Marvel cares more about appealing to fans that only recently discovered these characters while telling me to sit and spin for wanting logic and character consistency.

I used to love the MCU because of how comic accurate it was while simultaneously affording directors and writers enough wiggle room to employ creative license. Now it just exploits the characters I grew up loving for the fleeting approval of the fickle masses. It breaks my damn heart.

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Black Panther aside, do you feel the same way about the rest of the MCU?

Asking because I remember you posting about Thor (but, sorry, I can’t remember your beef with it - not being serious enough or something).

Asking because I’m enjoying the majority of the MCU output, mostly because they don’t take themselves too seriously.

I can hardly sit thru a DC film without a pick-me-up-drink.

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Is that NAMOR! :scream::scream::scream::scream::scream::scream::scream::scream::scream:

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I’m not too thrilled with the overly silly direction that the MCU has decided to embark on post Guardians of the Galaxy.

I think levity is important in superhero movies, but Marvel has gotten to the point of self parody in my book.

I think Marvel should be able to make films with vastly divergent tones instead of an endless sea of toothless, action comedies that are awash in bathos.

I feel like Marvel should let the characters decided the tone of the movie, not the brand. The MCU will give Ghost Rider a cute talking sidekick and cram the flick with a bunch of childish “banter.” I’m absolutely certain some variationof this “joke” will show up at least once…

“Ghost Rider? Your name is really Ghost Rider? Wow, you were really scary before I heard that.” Yikes…

We’ll never get a film as serious as Winter Soldier ever again, and that’s a shame. The modern MCU is a roller coaster ride with zero stakes for about an two hours.

In short, The Fantastic Four are my favorite property in comics and I’m scared shitless that Marvel is going to botch them horrifically.

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I like the FF, also.
Marvel have had two attempts at it, at least this century.

Balanced levity is, I agree, the key.
But too much darkness and we’re suddenly in DC territory.
(having said that - Suicide Squad 2 and subsequent tv spinoff peacemaker are hilarious, but I think they stole the Deadpool vibe.)

So, yeah, it would be nice to find something a little deeper, perhaps darker, but who would you go with?
And, having said that, Wanda has supplied us with a little dark-side recently.

(I am now sounding like a complete fan-boy. I must point out that I am not complet).

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I’m just going to foolishly wade into this and say… that was Kilmonger’s suit at the end.

Awkward Season 4 GIF by The Office

However, I could see them doing that as a bit of misdirection. What if it’s Shuri, but she wants to honor both T’Challa and Erik with a gold and purple suit? We just can’t see the purple accents from that angle.

ETA:

Apparently, I’m not alone, but other nerds are already a few steps ahead of me.

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