A little surprised this hasn’t been posted yet, and unless I missed it, this point hasn’t been made yet. I guess because the Cali drought isn’t in the news as much this summer?
One thing that would happen if we stopped eating meat is that we’d have shit tons more fresh water.
People, especially, urban people, can isolate themselves so far from the realities of the real world that they can start to think that food just shows up in little packages, or appears like on Star Trek. Even non vegetarians. They become Eloi, after a fashion, and construct rationalizations about what their place in the world really is. The truth is, when choosing a vegetarian of omnivorous life, you are choosing whether animals will be killed to feed you, or whether animals will be killed so that their habitat can be used to grow beets or whatever.
My kids participate in raising two or three calves each year to provide beef for our extended family. Spending time with those cows does not change my kid’s love of beef. Nor did watching the process of seeing cows turned into lots of assorted paper packages. None of this keeps them from being kind, empathetic people. In my view, their view is healthier, because there is no self-delusion involved in their understanding of where they fit into the food chain.
Not quite. My understanding is that if the miles and miles and miles of soy and corn currently being grown to feed meat-animals weren’t being grown for that purpose, it would take a lot less land filled with a lot of other vegetables (and fruit) to feed the same amount of people currently being fed a lot of meat-animals.
Good points. The quote above is interesting though, because America has led the way in making much larger portions of meat in more meals the norm. My understanding is that in many places, meat is eaten in much smaller portions, less often, and in many places is a luxury. It’s also interesting because if you look at types of dishes globally, the vast majority aren’t meat based. Most food is already ‘vegetarian’. Based on that, it makes more sense to have a special label for people who prefer to eat meat than those who don’t.
In case anyone has misunderstood my posts (not you, but I think someone else has) let me add that I totally concur.
Very true.
As the middle class in India has become richer, there has been a reverse trend for British Indian restaurants to open in India. There is a lot more meat in these than in, say, a traditional South Indian restaurant’s menu.
Your understanding is 100% correct.
In terms of land area needed per kg of protein, chickens need by far the least, followed by pigs and then cows. Raising cattle for beef really should be an environmental crime except in areas where they can be raised entirely on the land and grassland would be the selected-for ecosystem.
On suitable land the cow-milk-veal cycle does make sense, the main outputs being milk, relatively small amounts of veal from calves, and the eventual products of slaughtering end of life cows.
As soon as we read around here that farmers are seeing increased costs owing to the effect of the Brexit vote on the £, and imported soya costs, we know that’s unsustainable farming. But to get a working income from a sustainable farm it’s more or less necessary to do everything yourself including end sales. (I’ve just stocked up at the farmers’ market which is why all this is near the top of my mind at the moment. Chicken, pork, a little veal.)
I’m struggling with that concept. Presumably you are differentiating British Indian to actual Indian restaurants by the fact the Brit ones have meat on the menu? I can’t see how well that would go down in India, given prominent cultural vegetarianism there.
Where I work has a large and rotating Indian workforce onshore, I have yet to see any one of them eating meat. OTOH, it looks like the percentage of Indians who are vegetarian is actually a lot lower than i was expecting, from a quick look.
If one does want to go with a mixed group I would say that British Indian has (probably) the highest percentage of veggie to meat dishes, compared to most restaurants.
Copying to make sure everyone reads it at least twice.
Thomas Jefferson ate a lot of vegetables and used meat only as a flavoring, not usually a main course.
True.
Chinese tofu dishes often contain a little pork, for flavor. Or “oyster sauce.”
Kimchi recipes sometimes include oyster or dried shrimp, for flavor.
Vietnamese dishes can contain dried fish, dried shrimp, or fish sauce (Nước chấm) even when most of fare is vegetables, peanuts and/or bean curd.
I have been told by my nutritionist/dietician neighbor down my street that the typical American diet doesn’t need to have as much meat in it, there’s more than enough protein in the typical daily intake of The Classic “Average” American Being Studied by Scientists.
I learned some years ago that low protein intake makes people crave sugar, which itself is addictive. I wonder whether getting the protein intake nailed down for each and every human would have any direct effect on Big Sugar.
You are talking about high intensity, industrialized farming of animals. I think we agree about such practices, as they are environmentally destructive, and unnecessarily cruel. And a bunch of corn production is going to subsidized ethanol, which has not been such a good idea. We also send an amazing amount of corn, soy and beans to needy people in other countries.
If I had my choice, we would limit beef production to free range animals. I have mentioned this before, but we have been pretty proactive about restoring native grasses up here, and trying to support the growth of the tallgrass prairie through holistic range management, If the goal is to return as much land as possible to it’s natural state, we need to take into account large herds of grazing animals, that were always a key element.
You are probably right that eliminating feedlot-style industrial meat production could result in a net decrease in the need for farmed grain. I am with you on that, and am already doing my part.
But when we go back to the ethics of vegetarianism as a way to avoid harming animals, the fact remains that the hummus my wife is eating right now was grown on what used to be the habitat for wild animals, and was likely harvested by a child who makes $2.00 a day.
This also is worth echoing.
I became vegetarian right around the time I was also learning how to cook. I took my developing knowledge and skills for granted until I started receiving compliments from meat-eating friends and family. Perhaps a thick steak or barbecued chicken breast really is that sating that you feel you don’t need to focus much effort on anything else. When we remove that gravitational psychological center from our diet, we instinctively look for novelty.
I’m no longer vegetarian, though most of my meals are themselves vegetarian and sometimes I unwittingly eat this way entirely for a stretch of time (such as this past month). I guess that’s what happens if you’re vegetarian during your formative years (for me, almost all of my 20s). Meat just becomes another category, like pulses, grains, or nuts.
After a decade of vegetarianism, the first time I bent the rules was with fish sauce. I love making Thai curries, and the veggie fish sauces that are out there just don’t cut it. You really need the real thing for that authentic flavor.
I discovered this as well, and only two years ago, after several years of eating fish and well over a decade of loving Thai. It really makes up all the difference when assembling a ‘home-made’ curry from canned coconut milk and curry paste to match what’s served in Thai restaurants. Not kombu, not soy sauce, not MSG. It’s gotta be fish sauce.
Which makes me wonder: were all those Thai curries I enjoyed during my vegetarian years, ya know…vegetarian?
[Side note to those who have not yet tried fish sauce: even the best (Red Boat) smells more like ‘cat food’-fishy than ‘ocean’-fishy. Stay strong and have faith. This off-note will disappear entirely once you’ve simmered the curry for a few minutes. Ditto for sautéing sweating kale with it along with garlic and olive oil, which I highly recommend.]
I bet they were vegetarian in the same way that Chinese restaurants always put Ma Po Tofu on the "vegetarian"menu, unfortunately! “Mm, the chewy stuff with this tofu is so flavorful!”
Thai food is one of those cuisines that’s been refined over many many years to very specific ingredients. Sure, you can use “lite” coconut milk, a curry powder, white sugar, soy sauce, and bottled lime juice, and you’ll get something kinda tasty, but it won’t taste anything like a real Thai curry. You need real coconut milk, a good curry paste, palm sugar, fish sauce, and kaffir lime leaves for the genuine article. [though I usually just use brown sugar and fresh limes or lime zest]
There is a Chinatown restaurant in Philly whose menu is not only entirely vegan but the owner says they donate a percentage of their profit to animal rights/welfare initiatives. And the food is absolutely wonderful. Philly may be the home of the cheesesteak but it’s also home to a thriving veg*n scene. Miss that city more than mere visitors could understand.
Controversial? I was just asking for clarification, as I was struggling with the concept.
UK, near Bradford.
Yes, I suspect it would be, thus counter pointing myself with that same thought in my second paragraph.
I was a vegetarian most of my life, I’m not anymore but I don’t eat much meat. My husband has been vegetarian all his life. It’s not hard to cook, I think it might even be easier.
Sorry, I realise I was being a bit dickish in my post.
