Where Muhammad Ali's public persona came from

Permit some of us to celebrate Ali the champ, Ali the showman, Ali the individual, and Ali the man of peace. If you’d rather remember him as a racist asshole, feel free to, but I’d rather not have the Westboro Baptists in respectful remembrance comment threads.

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TIL that my comment is the equivalent of stating “God Hates Fags.” Such lovely discourse.

I did not say that. You did. You just created your own discourse. Congrats!

The Westboro Baptists are well known for picketing funerals and hurling insults at the recently dead. Like you, their purpose seems to be “you should feel bad about honoring this person”.

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Oh, come on. Muhammad Ali had fallen from the public eye decades ago, and the only reason anyone gives a shit about him now is because he died. Something feels gross about all the chest-beating and fulsome praise people do when a forgotten celeb dies nowadays.

Ali was a great athlete and brilliant when it came to mind games. If we’d had this discussion a month ago (or I’m guessing a month from now), though, it’d be a discussion about his racism, homophobia, misogyny, and womanizing.

That is worded so weirdly. It sounds like you disagree, and then right after that you vehemently agree.

I’ve got to remember this for when Bill Cosby finally kicks the bucket. I’m bookmarking this comment.

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Okay?
My meaning is this: If someone wishes to remember Muhammad Ali as a horrible human being, that is their right. They can do so all they wish. But proclaiming that he’s a horrible human being not worth remembering is fucking rude as shit when done in a comment thread remembering his outsize persona, his personal principals, and where he learned his media chops from, two days after he died.

Feel free to.

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Muhammad Ali Makes A Special Appearance At The Opening Ceremony - London 2012 Olympics

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Ooh, that totally, 100% disproves what I said. Kudos to you.

/s

I want to get this right, though; I’m not really defending turning this into a poo-slinging fest about the terrible things he did, just taking a moment to make comments about the weird and imho gross trend of acting like people like Muhammad Ali meant a lot to all of us, right after they die, when clearly he didn’t.

I’m glad to see the man get some attention for the good things he did, and don’t intend any disrespect. I think it’s also good to keep in mind that, like all of us, he was also a flawed man. A human being, if you will. If we can also refrain from doing the thing I brought up above–which is to start slinging poo about the bad stuff he did, about a month from now when we’ll all quite frankly be sick of all the Ali veneration–that’d be great, too.

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Do remind me again of what Ali did that compares to apparently drugging and raping over fifty women.[quote=“Mal_Tosevite, post:20, topic:79156”]
I think it’s also good to keep in mind that, like all of us, he was also a flawed man. A human being, if you will.
[/quote]

Well DUH. I don’t see anyone here claiming he was literally a god or otherwise superhuman/supernatural.

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Calling him a racist, womanizing homophobe isn’t the best way to show that.

To those of us who grew up in the 70s, he was a sort of god among men, or at least, amazing to see. Of course I wasn’t sitting around venerating him daily. But his death is a remembrance of his greatness when he was The Champ. Memories are okay things to have.

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If this issue really bothers you much in regards specifically to Ali, I suggest reading this thread too. It contains a lot of specific notes of respect for what he did beyond (way beyond) boxing.

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You keep talking about his “racism.” Because he called Frazer an “uncle Tom?” Are you claiming he hated black people? That’s not even in the realm of sanity. He was clearly a proud black man.

Are you saying he was racist against white people? Again, a swing and a miss: he was actually a very sober and reasonable critic of white America at a time when white America was really, really racist. And he paid for his principles.

The man’s not a demigod. . . but your accusation that he’s RACIST is simply unfounded. Stop repeating it as fact.

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The new London Mayor actually used the expression to mean British Muslims who were prepared to over-compromise to gain acceptance, but clearly as a descriptive label. The less polite expression is “coconut”. But nobody except the most barrel-scraping of political opponents would call Khan a racist. (and the barrel scraping failed anyway, because Londoners aren’t that stupid.)
Suggesting that a section of the community should not have to deny the value of their ancestry and defer to the white man is hardly racism; it’s more or less the exact opposite.

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Ahem… I beg to differ.

If you bothered to click on that link, you’ll see an original piece of artwork that I personally created more than 10 years ago, commemorating Ali’s second victory over Sonny Liston.

I drew that piece because I admire the man and what he stood for in his lifetime, and I did it long before June 3, 2016.

Maybe some people “only give a shit” because he recently died, but not ALL people, and certainly not me.

Your reductionist assessment that ‘no one genuinely cares’ seems needlessly negative.

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Thank you for sharing, that drawing is fantastic.

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N/p & thank you for saying so.

Yo mindreader, it’s called the human condition, and it’s perfectly normal.

Also, you don’t know shit. I have in the past few years at least a few times taken a few minutes to watch an M.Ali fight or interview on youtube and it was impressive, inspiring even though he was still alive.

Again, it ain’t a trend, it’s normal, and it’s amplified by our new technologies, which tricked you.

I listened to Bowie before he died, usually daily if I worked that day, and when he died the same thing happened, people reminisced as they will, it was amplified, and some people complained about other people being normal. But I should assume they are all gruesome bandwaggoneers for this? No, I do not.

And no, I at least would not have been discussing his racism, because that’s a bullshit claim. Complete, utter bullshit.

There aren’t enough dumb people here that they should need reminding that all people are flawed. I mean, look at your post and your choice of contextualization. Shit man, that be flawed, your reminder is redundant is redundant.

It ain’t whitewash, because things that define individuals in the public eye are not exclusive of the rest of the persons makeup.


Ali was the Greatest, because he said so and no one ever made him eat those words. Even when he lost, his opponents would concede he was the Greatest.

And when his braggadacio went beyond the world of boxing, entering into racial politics of the times, no one ever made him eat those words either. He stood up to his oppressors up to and including the government of the United States of America, then as now the most powerful human force on Earth. Few can claim to do so at all, let alone how he did it.

But what’s that?,… you say he’s not perfect…? Oh…well then… go fuck yourself.

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I watched the two famous documentaries about Ali’s famous 70s fights, including the one where he calls Foreman a “gorilla” last year. I did it because Ali is interesting and relevant. He wasn’t dead then either.

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When We Were Kings is a brilliant documentary, probably the best document of Ali at the height of his powers. Seeing crowds of locals chanting “ALI! BOMAYE!!” is one of the enduring images of his career. And it also puts his insult into context: this was the Rumble in the Jungle, and Ali was mocking him for being slow, dumb, and ugly as a gorilla as he called himself pretty and quick.

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