I think that there’s a sort of very ad hoc calculus that fans engage in when they hear of something like this, which is based on the work that the creator has done, and what it means to them personally, versus the harm that the creator has done, and what that means to them personally. Take, for example, Isaac Asimov. Asimov did some absolutely essential work in SF–way, way more important to the genre than anything Card has done or probably could do–and was personally important to me, growing up. But then there’s this. Should I continue to celebrate that man’s work, despite its intrinsic value, given that he sexually assaulted women who probably weren’t expecting that from the creator of Arkady Darell? Sadly, I’ve come to the conclusion that, no, I shouldn’t.
So, for me, with OSC it’s a no-brainer, but I can admit that in part it’s because I just wasn’t that impressed by Ender’s Game; it’s always struck me as the sort of thing that’s adored by former precocious children who thought that they were more mature as children than they really were. I only finished it because of its reputation, and didn’t feel the need to pursue his work any further, well before I’d heard of his views on homosexuality. I can understand that it’s harder for other people to give up Card than it was for me; I guess that the question I’d have for Cory is this: is there anything that Card would do that could put him beyond the moral event horizon for you? Would it matter if it was one of your pet causes, say, if he’d called for the death penalty for Edwin Snowden?
This is why black activists have learned that they can only trust white liberals so far, why feminists have learned that they can only trust their sympathetic men friends so far, why LGBT people have learned that we can only trust our straight friends so far. No matter how much they want to be helpful, the fact that they can fall back on privilege inevitably deforms their perspective on the matter. They will always end up retreating to doing whatever they damned well please because, ultimately, it doesn’t directly affect them.
Not really. Telling those I am already communicating with is a personal communication, even in a public space like this discussion BBS. It is the reader or listener’s choice whether or not to read my comment (someone already interested in the issue up for debates) or listen to my words. A picket line is a public shaming (at the least) and intimidation (at the worst.) A picket line, say at my local movie theater, is a visual (often times loudly vocal) assault on their movie going experience. I am not giving the target audience a choice.
That said, there are certain things worth protesting about where I would not give the audience a choice, but a movie based on the book of a bigot, which in and of itself is not espousing that same bigotry is not one of them.
When I started web surfing this afternoon I saw mentions of Card’s anti-gay stance on at least four different websites. People are talking about it and thinking about it. And that means it’s already effective.
Having seen the trailer, I can’t imagine why any Ender fans would want to see the film. It looks like it has only the sketchiest relationship to the book.
I don’t believe I gave a straw man argument at all. You gave a VERY broad argument that most certainly supported the idea behind my “straw man”. Your argument was the poor one, if you were trying to just say “let people have their non violent beliefs”, as the argument you gave encompassed much more than that. I wanted to re-read it to be sure I hadn’t missed something. But it’s gone. Did the moderator do that (I find that odd, it was a poorly written argument but not outright objectionable from what I read) or did you think it didn’t really live up to what you were trying to get across. [quote=“RemusShepherd, post:92, topic:3138”]
I just don’t see a point to hating and punishing people for their non-violent beliefs. Don’t let them take over, but don’t make hate worse by piling more hate on top of it.
[/quote]
Now WE’RE the ones who are hating for calling a boycott on someone who advocated actual physical oppression on us? You remind me of the post that went around after the DOMA decision: “As we celebrate our victory let us not forget about those who opposed us and have lost… nothing”. Calling a person like OSC who advocated physical violence and spouts hatred against certain people a bigot is not hating. It’s not piling hate on hate, it’s piling truth on hate. Best way to beat hate I know of. And in THIS society the way you keep them from taking over is you don’t let them make more money to use against you. You do that by letting people know what they are supporting with their dollars.
[quote=“Antinous, post:118, topic:3138, full:true”]
Having seen the trailer, I can’t imagine why any Ender fans would want to see the film. It looks like it has only the sketchiest relationship to the book.
[/quote]A faithful adaptation would have to include an unsettling amount of prepubescent nudity.
I used to be a fan of Card’s work thanks to being a smart, nerdy teenager when “Ender’s Game” came out. Then I realized I was queer. And then I found out that Card is a rampant homophobe. So I decided to stop giving him money.
I don’t think I’d tell anyone to not see this movie. But if one of my friends started getting all excited about wanting to see it, I’d say “hey, you know Card’s a rabid right-wing looney, right?”. If they said “yes, I’m seeing it anyway because ENDER’S GAME!!!” I really wouldn’t think anything less of them.
I mean, when the Kickstarter that @codinghorror mentions near the top of the thread was going around, I mentioned the time its creator trashed me for being a trans furry who worked in animation. Some of my friends still supported it, and I’m fine with that because I am kinda sad the dude’s such a wingnut because he makes awesomely funny drawings, and I’d really love to be able to enjoy them.
It gets more complicated when you have big productions, sure. You can worry about paying the bills of the people who worked on it besides the wingnut in question. You can also wonder how many of those people worked on it share those views, or don’t have a problem with working on something from someone well-known for having them.
Make your own choices, make your own moral compromises. Buy whatever you want. But be aware of who you’re giving power by giving them money.
[quote=“Antinous, post:121, topic:3138”]
And even more unsettling for Hollywood, people talking rather than blowing shit up.
[/quote]At least they spend a fair amount of time talking about blowing shit up.
I am all for artists being allowed their views. It is this quote I can’t get away from, “Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down,”
Is this really a man I want to have any part in giving money to what could become an immense film franchise? Someone who has pledged to destroy our government? Sorry this movie needs to fail.
