Why (or why not) to vote for Bernie Sanders

No.

He has been attacking the BBC for years though, and since the Conservatives got into power in 2010 the BBC news reporting has been leaning even more to the right.

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Ah, got it. Same thing seems to have happened with the USā€™s sort-of version, NPR (National [middle-class white people] Public Radio).

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The Graun is owned by the Scott trust. Itā€™s the only major UK paper that isnā€™t owned by a Murdoch or Murdoch-esque oligarch arsehole. (cf. Richard Desmond, Viscount Rothermere, Evgeny Lebedev, the Barclay Bros)

But their editorial position is really depressingly centrist Blairite/Clintonian shite. Too much of a liberal London metropolitan paper. Still better than the other papers though, not that itā€™s saying much. And the Beeb is getting shredded by the Tories. Death by a thousand cuts.

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Who owns Trinity Mirror Group? Not that the Daily Mirror are a good source for news, but they do support Hope not Hate.

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Thanks, that helps me make sense of it. I was a pretty regular reader until Corbynā€™s win, and his subsequent efforts to get situated and get something actually-socialist going. The Graunā€™s coverage (or rather lack thereof) seemed astonishing, but now it makes more sense.

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I always forget The Mirror. Never been a tabloid reader, and I still associate them with Piers Moron.

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My grandad used to read it along with the Sunday Post (every Sunday afternoon I was given the pages with Oor Wullie and the Broons on them). My dad also read the Sunday Sun, which is also a Trinity Mirror newspaper that covers the North-East of England and Cumbria.

The Morning Star is a national newspaper, although calling it a major newspaper would be stretching the term to breaking point. Jeremy Corbyn is listed as a contributor on the wikipedia page though.

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A 29-year-old female data processor wrote: ā€œAs horrific as Donald Trump is, and he is a horrible, racist, misogynist idiot, I donā€™t think Hillary Clinton is any better. I feel like with Trump, he could at least inspire a revolution, even if it is against him. I prefer chaos to stagnation.ā€

I have some sympathy for this viewpoint - fuck business as usual.

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So does the Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch and Slaanesh. Its in their best interest.

EDIT: Apologize to Kimmo, I donā€™t see any evidence to say you support the quotation, just the underlying message as you interpret it. Just Clarifying.

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If America canā€™t choose the only guy in a lifetime worth voting for rather than against, then fuck America - go burn under Trump.

In addition to rubbing the nationā€™s nose in the stupidity and ugliness itā€™s allowed to fester in its populace, at least Trump (if anything he says is to be believed) has some anti-establishment positions, so it likely wouldnā€™t be all bad.

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Consistent policies, consistent hair. :slight_smile:

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I probably should state that Iā€™m not an United States citizen, so mu opinion is effectively nothing, but as part of the macrocosm, If you believe Trump, you believe the Lie. He is telling you what you want to hear. ALWAYS go for the lesser Evil, and I donā€™t believe Evil Exists.

I really must state state, If you are willing to vote for an asshole (any Republican) than Hillary than all hope is lost. If you say Fuck America, than FUCK YOU.

The US is at a crossroads: a return to the decency that evaporated in the 80s, or cementing its reputation as a warmongering bunch of selfish fat fucks.

Bernie: #NotMeUs

Clinton: more of the same

Trump: letā€™s all wallow in depravity

Only one of these options is worth a fucking damn.

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Hereā€™s an interesting article from the New York Times:

As Demonstrated by Senator Bernie Sanders, the Art of the Side Door Deal

Iā€™ve heard critics complain about the low number of bills Bernie has authored (or co-authored) and passed. The article explains how heā€™s still worked hard to get things doneā€¦ including working across the aisle when needed. If anything even halfway decent is going to happen over the next few years, we need this kind of collaboration. :heart_eyes:

(Though on the NYT print edition, the front-page piece is headlined with ā€œSandersā€™s Roster of Modest Wins.ā€ The link I typed uses the title given on page A18ā€™s conclusion to the article. The online title is ā€œVia Legislative Side Doors, Bernie Sanders Won Modest Victories.ā€ Thatā€™s a lot of titles for one story.)

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I think this complaint about Sanders reflects the idea that a congresscritter is a competing partisan, charged with getting all they can for their constiuents, rather than making sure the government works for as broad a base of people as possible. It seems connected to the rise of neo-liberal, ā€œIā€™ve got mine, screw everyone elseā€ mindsetā€¦ Itā€™s precisely whatā€™s driving us off a cliff. Sanders reflects a far different mind set regarding government, something that used to be far more common, that itā€™s meant to be effective for the most number of people. It sounds like he actually got some shit down and it wasnā€™t about his own self-aggrandizement, which makes him all the more fit for the office of presidency in my eyes.

Thanks for sharing!

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Yes, exactly this. And thank you for expressing it in a more articulate way than my coffee - deprived brain could handle this morning.

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Jane Sanders visited Joe Arapiosā€™ tent city jail and unsurprisingly, found it wanting:

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There are more serious, nonviolent means for resisting fascism than voting, right?

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Aaaaand now I find out the New York Times has edited the story at the link I posted earlier to be less positive than originally written.

http://gawker.com/the-new-york-times-had-an-awful-lot-of-second-thoughts-1765130013

WTF?

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The CBC just had an article about why we had to talk about Hitler when we talk about Trumpā€¦ and Sanders! Basically the thrust of the story is that when people are economically dispossessed they tend to support extremism. It mentions Sanders twice and never really says anything about him or his positions (that would mostly easily find a home in two of our three national parties, maybe in the third as well if they get over their current neo-con phase). A nice drive-by ā€œSanders is Hitlerā€. Since the CBC doesnā€™t have corporate owners, Iā€™m left to assume that the old people driving editorial content are actually too mired in status quo to see any way out.

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