But… that’s been their platform, like, forever. Granted, he’s turned it up to eleven, but even so.
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i’m also not american, btw, but this profile by Rebecca Traister (warning - super long) made me feel a lot better about the prospect her as president.
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I skimmed it, but it doesn’t discuss the thing that I’m interested in: Is Hillary Clinton going to start another war? Is she going to start (or avoid starting) a really big war (i.e., Russia, China)?
I feel like the answers are yes and maybe. Neo-cons seem to think that NATO can win a war against Russia for Lithunia or Estonia. The US was provoking China in May (I don’t know about since) with warships.
I’m so unimpressed with the US trying to assert itself at as the big kid on the block internationally instead of acting like a grown up. I’m not sure where Clinton sits on these issues, but I know she definitely isn’t averse enough to war for my taste.
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It would technically be better if we sent our leaders to fight as our proxy champions instead of armies, but Putin would still kick America’s ass (and ours, unless we elected the Lib Dems maybe, and sent Paddy Ashdown. SAS vs. KGB? Make for great pay per view, though ol’ Paddy’s knocking on a bit these days).
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Til Paddy bushwhacks him and pushes him into a spiked pit.
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Humbabella, you posted the following in post #:899 of this forum topic.
I’ve been thinking of asking this question of @khepra and a few other Clinton backers around here. I can understand another person disagreeing with my reasons for disliking her. But when I think about why people actually back her - feel excited to support her - I come up with nothing…
…I really want her to tell me why anyone should vote for her. I’d like to understand, but I just find support for Clinton confusing.
Below you will find two lists (the second is exhaustive), of reasons to support Hillary Diane 
Rodham Clinton. The lists are compiled by three women 
–who are enthusiastic supporters of Hillary Clinton.
Maybe these ladies reasons will (or maybe they won’t) help elucidate your understanding and alleviate your confusion concerning–Why (** *** ***) to vote for Hillary Clinton.
22 reasons to support Hillary Clinton.
112 (actually 105) amazing 
reasons to support Hillary Clinton.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/112-reasons-and-counting-hillary-clinton-should-be-our-next-president/
Why (** *** ***) to vote for Hillary Clinton
Because America does not need a racist and bigoted president.
The documented racism and bigotry associated with Donald Trump, as well as his racist and bigoted comments, coded racist and bigoted comments, is exhaustive.
Donald Trump was the poster child of the racist and bigoted Birther Movement, that sought and still seeks to deligitimize President Obama, ‘as not one of us’-- i.e., not a white American–because of his African ancestry.
Donald Trump called the selection of African-American icon Harriet Tubman–the new face on the twenty dollar bill; an example of–“pure political correctness.”
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/21/politics/donald-trump-tubman-bill-political-correctness/
…The business mogul heaped praise on Jackson, whose presence on the $20 bill was criticized due to his history as a slave-owner and his dismal record on Native American and racial issues, epitomized by the Jackson administration’s infamous “Trail of Tears” policy that forcibly relocated the Cherokee people to devastating effect…
Donald Trump has referred to African-Americans, using the racist term-- “The Blacks”
…The same Donald Trump who spent several months in 2011 questioning the authenticity of President Obama’s birth certificate and demanding to see the president’s college transcripts then turned around and claimed “I have a great relationship with the Blacks.” The Blacks? Who says that? And, more importantly, who believes that?..
Donald Trump’s racist and bigoted attacks on immigrants of color and Muslim-Americans–is well known, since it has been widely reported in the media. Trump’s continued defense of his campaigns use of the Jewish ‘Star of David’ in an obvious and anti-Semitic way–is an example of a troubling and deliberate pattern of association with racist, bigoted and anti-Semitic white supremacist groups.
…The barrage of anti-Semitic attacks on Ioffe has been well documented in the media over the last week with countless articles and coverage on cable news channels. When Blitzer asked Trump about the backlash, Trump ignored the specific question and instead attacked the article. Although Trump claimed he hadn’t read the article, he still dubbed it “very inaccurate” and “nasty,” adding, “they shouldn’t be doing that with wives.” (I guess Trump already forgot his attacks on the looks of Ted Cruz’s wife Heidi).
Yet Blitzer pressed Trump, “But the anti-Semitic death threats that have followed…” Trump interrupted, “Oh, I don’t know about that. I don’t know anything about that. You mean fans of mine?”
Blitzer responded, “Supposed fans of posting these very angry—but your message to these fans is?”
This is the moment at which Trump should’ve clearly condemned the anti-Semitic comments. And if Trump were a true leader, he would’ve encouraged his “fans” to stop spewing such hate.
But he didn’t. Instead Trump responded: “I don’t have a message to the fans.” And then, astoundingly, he attacked Ioffe again. “A woman wrote an article that’s inaccurate…”
…Since the start of his campaign, Donald Trump has retweeted at least 75 users who follow at least three of the top 50 [most influential] #WhiteGenocide influencers.
In other words, the hardest core of racist America.
Ten more examples of Donald John Trump being racist.
You don’t need to convince anyone reading this thread that Trump is bad news. We know.
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But if posting “look how bad trump is!” posts aren’t going to work, what’s she supposed to do now? Honestly talk about Hillary?
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Well, since Khepra is reiterating why not to vote for Trump instead of why to vote for Clinton, here are some things I found about her that I could conceivably consider good enough:
She plans to tackle the prison industrial complex by:
- “Ban the box”: prohibit employers from asking about criminal history in their application.
- Replacing incarceration with rehabilitation for low-level nonviolent drug use (though more detail on that would be nice? Is it just marijuana?)
- Reform minimum sentencing (but only tweaking the prerequisites, not getting rid of it. Also not retroactively applied
)
She plans to make education more affordable by:
- Eliminating tuition for in-state public colleges for students from families making up to $125,000. Though I see another tidbit about students “doing their part by contributing their earnings from working 10 hours a week”, wtf does that mean?
- Enforcing some measure of cost control (more details would be appreciated)
- Enabling existing students to refinance their debt at the lower rates implemented
She plans to make health care more affordable by:
- Fighting to implement a public option
- Enforcing some measure of cost control on prescriptions (more details would be appreciated)
- Protecting womens access to reproductive healthcare and perhaps expanding it (did not see a lot on expanding, just protecting whats left against Republicans)
She plans to tighten gun control by:
- Enforcing background checks and close gunshow loopholes, revoking licenses for any dealers that try to circumvent regulations
- Removing liability immunity from gun manufacturers
- Broad platitudes about keeping guns out of the hands of terrorists et al, because we know who is and is not a terrorist obviously
So, that’s what I could find when I was actually trying to find a case for Hillary Clinton. I’m disappointed I had trouble finding 3 bullet points for each issue. I had hoped that I’d simply been out of the loop and she had adopted some bold new platforms.
I mean these would be definite moves in the right direction, but this is also the part of the campaign where the candidates promise the moon and we hope they can at least get us off the ground. If this is the ideal list of things she wants to do, I just can’t get excited about that. It is very too little far too late that may not even happen.
It’s no wonder it’s much easier to focus on why Trump is bad. He has a platform you can get excited about (as in “oh god what if even half the things he bloviated about he actually tried to deliver on, that would be catastrophic”).
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That’s great news, since a vote for any other third-party presidential candidate, as well as Donald Trump himself, will only help elect Donald Trump as the 45th President of the United States.
I am glad to learn that no one has a problem with, is in denial or has their head buried in the sand, regarding the fact that–Donald Trump is running a xenophobic, racist, bigoted and anti-Semitic presidential campaign.
It is great that you and “we” know that Donald Trump’s racist and bigoted comments and associations white supremacists are overriding and disqualifying factors that prevent him from ever being elected President of the United States.
Vote for Hillary in 2016!
I may or may not vote for Clinton. Thanks to the Electoral College my vote in Texas is effectively meaningless, so there’s a fair chance I’ll protest vote for someone, because it’s a meaningless token.
If I lived in a swing state I’d vote Clinton because Trump is absolutely unqualified in every sense, is toxic, and is shockingly corrupt to boot, though I would really be voting against Trump.
But if I were in your shoes, and trying to convince people who didn’t like Clinton to vote for Clinton, I’d suggest a different tack:
Listen to the criticisms, and be honest.
If someone say that Hillary’s owned by Wall Street, acknowledge that she has a lot of ties, acknowledge that there is a weakness there, then try to spin. There are angles you could probably find. I can think of some, but am not about to say them because I’d feel dirty.
If they suggest she’s a serial liar, acknowledge that she’s been dishonest at times, but try to make the case that she’s not unusually dishonest for a politician. Maybe try to establish some standard of normal political BS and show she meets it or something.
If they go on about the paid speeches to Wall Street, acknowledge that this isn’t a good thing, that it’s really a problem for politicians to be taking in cash from big businesses, and then qualify that most of her speeches weren’t to Wall St., that she didn’t pocket the money, etc.
If they go on about her militarism, then acknowledge that she did vote to support use of force against Iraq, and as Sec. State she did like the US to show force, and then mention that what she voted for was to pursue UN Security Council authorization for force if a set of conditions weren’t met, and that the Iraq invasion wasn’t sanctioned by the Security Council, and in fact was a unilateral invasion not a UN action, and that was not only not what she voted for, but was in violation of it. Maybe figure out some nuance on her hawkishness as Sec. State if it’s possible.
Just, you know, at least pretend you’re listening and responding to what people are saying. If you listen there’s a better chance you might at least get someone, somewhere to shift from seeing her as horrible to merely bad.
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There is no disagreement with Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders that overrides me voting for a xenophobic, racist, bigoted and anti-Semitic republican presidential candidate named Donald Trump.
The Republican Party as a whole is sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, racist and bigoted. Donald Trump is a mere reflection of the Republican Party and it’s voting electorate as a whole.
Ted Cruz was the runner-up to Donald Trump, winning the second highest amount of elected delegates and popular votes during the 2016 republican presidential nomination campaign.
Ted Cruz has been mentioned in the media, to have been selected to address the nation at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, Ohio. A prime time speaking slot for Ted Cruz-- the same Ted Cruz who said the U.S. Senate would be better off if there were 100 U.S. Senators like Jesse Helms.
That’s Jesse Helms, the deceased, notorious, racist and bigoted Jim Crow segregationist.
WASHINGTON — Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) said Wednesday that the country would be better off if the Senate was full of people like Jesse Helms, the late senator who was ardently opposed to all kinds of civil rights measures and even tried to block the Senate from approving a federal holiday in honor of Martin Luther King, Jr.
Which is a load of crap. Clearly, McConnell saw the charming face Helms could present to the world when he wanted to. But the real Jesse Helms oozed out nearly every time he opened his mouth to slander those who didn’t agree with him. He claimed “crime rates and irresponsibility among Negroes are a fact of life which must be faced” In a 1981 New York Times interview…
…and in 1963 asked, “Are civil rights only for Negroes? White women in Washington who have been raped and mugged on the streets in broad daylight have experienced the most revolting sort of violation of their civil rights.”
This election will impact the cultural soul of America–moving into the future. Voting against Donald Trump or any republican in 2016 is an easy decision.
African-Americans in this country understand from experience what racism and bigotry is.
I believe we will witness a record African-American turnout in 2016-- and because of Donald Trump, Hillary will receive a higher percentage of the African-American vote than President Obama did in 2008 and 2012.
That’s great if she becomes President of Some State. Tuition at public universities is set by the school’s system, usually as part of some heated negotiation with the state legislature over state funding, which has been declining for years. It is not federal authority. For sure the federal government has enormous leverage over schools through Pell grants and research funding, but if she tells schools they no longer get tuition income she either needs to replace it with something else or we will see US public education disappear in 3-4 years.
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You’re dodging the question, khepra.
Without mentioning how bad Donald Trump is, why should I vote for Hillary? Give me a list of reasons, ideally.
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So in otherwords, the exact same criticisms she had about Bernie Sanders education platform also apply to hers. Figures. 
ETA: So the exact same criticisms she had about Bernie Sanders education platform actually only apply to hers. That really figures. 
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She’s got a long way to go before being a remotely prefect candidate:
And that’s why arguing against Trump is her best shot.
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No. The Sanders plan explicitly specifies a funding mechanism - not only where the money comes from (tax the rich), but how it gets to the schools. This includes direct federal funding of 2/3 of the cost of running the school, and a mandate to the states to cover the other 33%. Clinton’s plan has the usual iffy source of funds (cut some deductions), no actual direct federal funding of the schools, and vague incentives rather than mandates for states to up their funding.
I’m not sure the federal government has the authority or power to implement the Sanders plan either, but at least if it did (some version of) it would have a chance of working. Sanders is married to a college COO - albeit a rather poor one - so unlike HRC he is not completely ignorant of how higher education budgets work.
While I support the goal of free higher ed, from the POV of where the next president can actually make an immediate difference I would far rather have had Clinton adopt the Sanders language on TPP rather than some simalcrum of his ed proposal.
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So the shorter of the two lists is a subset of the longer one, so it’s really just one list. I’d say that list has a fairly low signal-to-noise ratio for someone looking for reasons to support Clinton rather than oppose Trump or simply to vote D over R. I also think the biggest reason I see people not liking Clinton is because people simply don’t believe she’ll actually stand up to big money. Reasons include “Our democracy should work for everyone—not just the wealthy and well-connected.” but Clinton is seen as a tool of the wealth and connected and her refusal to release Goldman Sachs speeches makes it seem like she’s trying to hide her commitment to the wealthy and powerful. It says “She’ll fight to overturn Citizens United to curb the outsized influence of big money in politics.” but I think if Bernie supporters believed that she’d have them backing her in large numbers. What about her - other than her say-so - makes anyone believe she will do this?
Still, the list does contain reminders of why Clinton would be a good president. I do think she’ll stand up for women’s rights: fight attempts to chip away at abortion rights, work for family leave, and generally just not take shit on the issue. She really does know how to stand up to antagonists, the Benghazi hearings were a huge win for her as a credible president.
Her militarism is troubling but it’s also the other side of the coin to her general aggressiveness about things she thinks are worthwhile. So while I may think it’s pathetic that she is only as progressive as the average American on that issue (I’d rather vote for someone who leads), average has crossed over to the right side of history now, and I think her support of gay rights would probably be bold rather than tepid.
As a foreigner, my biggest concern in this election is who is going to start World War III. I don’t like Clinton’s record on war, but she’s not frothing at the mouth either. An example I came across was that she liked the idea of a no-fly-zone over Syria but wanted to talk to Russia about it first. That is, she wanted a no fly zone but wanted it to de-escalate conflict rather than escalate it, as compared to some Republicans who seemed to be hoping to shoot down a Russian plane. I don’t think she’ll have a problem continuing the American policy of randomly incinerating thousands of brown-skinned people living far away, but I think she’ll at least try to avoid hostility with Russia and China. With Trump the next war will be with someone who insults his ego, and I don’t think Putin would shy away from - for example - pointing out that Trump is an idiot and that by extension Americans are idiots if Trump was in charge.
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