How is this point you keep making not off topic in this thread? Which is about Anita, who has worked heroically against not video games themselves, but toxic masculinity in gaming culture?
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Actually I think there’s something very therapeutic that it does and for that reason you get some people who are very insecure about it. You control things in an environment where you can’t really be hurt, you operate physical device, sometimes one actually called a controller that allows you to do things with ease that would otherwise be impossible. You engage your mind and body in a way that you simply don’t with other media. So for toxic folks who see control as abuse it is impossible to separate without a lot of self-growth. But for people who need to experience that safety it can also be helpful. I got into playing JRPGs to deal with absolutely fatal-stage depression and made the connection pretty quickly. It was that experience that made me certain that keeping things like this out of the hands of other people is for those people who are so privileged (and/or delusional) that they expect the actual world to give them the same sense that a game can. It’s also all the more reason to fight for that space, not just for myself but for others. At least that’s what the altruistic side of me says.
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I took a look back at a community I was heavily involved in for a while, too. One member went to prison for distributing child pornography. One was involved in a murder/suicide, and one went to prison for rape. You want to guess which game this was? Call of Duty? Grand Theft Auto? Dance Dance Revolution? That’s a trick question because we were a local group of Unix enthusiasts.
There’s terrible people in any fandom.
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But we all, even the fans, found out what it portended later. What we saw was one art fall to the segment of society that would be coming for the rest of us soon… and almost everyone thought centrism was the answer so we lost to them.
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Just, fyi, criticism isn’t blanket condemnation. It’s seeking to draw out the underlying ideological biases in a way that makes them more apparent and hopefully improves the experiences for everyone involved. It’s not just saying “it’s all bad, so let’s get rid of it.” She never said all games or gaming or gamers are bad. She’s making a critique.
I’m getting pretty tired of being told that any critique is the same thing as condemnation, because it’s just not that at all. People really should get over themselves and stop thinking that just because they happen to like or enjoy a particular kind of culture, that it’s perfect and we should never talk about any problems it might have.
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It’s pretty difficult to argue that FF, by exposing toxic masculinity in gaming, can’t also include the idea that many genres of gaming by extension may well be toxic by design, since that’s the point - in many cases, the very design of said games were created to appeal to those toxic elements.
To me, that point is pretty irrefutable (and clearly on-topic). I’m personally concerned that the pendulum swing as a result of FF bringing this all to light is going to swing too far the other way before we find equilibrium, but the jury is still out on that.
Gaming isn’t a monolith, as you and several other posters have pointed out, but I think there probably is a case that several segments of gaming really are, as a whole, toxic cesspools. That’s part of why I personally have 0 interest in PvP/FPS games - even hardcore fans I know have an attitude of “Yes, it’s a cesspool, but I ignore it, it’s fun!”, which is great if you can do that personally, but terrible for gaming moving forward as a whole.
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This is true. Back in the day, I used to play Quake (single-player) when I was feeling grumpy. After a couple of hours of taking out my frustrations on space demons, I’d usually feel calmer. I don’t think it affected the way I treated people outside the game. It was just a way of blowing off some steam, and my progress through the game gave me some tiny sense of accomplishment.
Last year, after days spent in the hospital with my Dad, who was battling cancer, I’d come home and play a few rounds of Temple Run 2 on my Kindle. It helped me unwind from the tensions of the day and calm my brain so I could sleep. Did it accomplish anything substantial? No, but it helped me feel a tiny bit better, and that was enough for me.
Like so many other things around us, video games can be tools, neither good nor bad in themselves. Ultimately it’s our responsibility in how we use them, and the attitudes we bring to them.
Video games are also a way we tell stories, especially as both hardware/software capabilities and narratives become more complex. I think that can elevate them to an artform, much like books and movies. That makes it all the more important to take a critical look at the tales they tell, both in text and subtext. I’m glad Ms. Sarkeesian helped start that conversation. Even if people don’t agree with every conclusion she reached, it’s a worthwhile effort. She never should have suffered the backlash she got for it.
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Yes! This is what we do with art, to help us understand it better!
The overwrought reaction to Sarkeesian’s work has been and continues to be silly. The violent language aimed at her and the threats to her life are simply unacceptable, too.
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Just got around to looking at this. Really good video series! Thanks for the recommendation!
It really highlights the possibilities around possible positive sexuality in games you lament here, I recommend watching that when you get the time @orenwolf!
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That is a good argument, I honestly hadn’t looked at it that way. I don’t think I agree with it but since I can’t say exactly why yet I’m going to think on that for a bit. It does help me see the other perspective, if you love a game because of the toxic elements, well that may be going away.
Yes, in your way of putting it, yes, that is on-topic. We can even use your comment as a springboard to further discussion, like whether we believe the pendulum will swing back too far or even whether it should have been allowed to have begun moving at all.
However the question was aimed towards someone else that is doing none of that, this person is repeatedly feigning like “we” changed his mind and that he now sees all games are the worst. This behavior is hijacking the thread by making it about a strawman. Nobody here, including him, wants games to go away. It is not participating in the conversation in good faith.
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This topic is not about any one person or their opinions (well, except the subject of the post, I suppose 
). The questions I raised are about the ideas raised in this disucssion, which, yes, I do believe warrant further examination. Especially since IMHO that was the very point of FF in the first place.
I’m sure this won’t be the last discussion on gamer culture, videogames, and toxic masculinity on Boing Boing. 
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Hahaha, who of you created this video?!? 
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Perhaps not go away, but be strictly regulated and considered much more dangerous than they currently are.
Until two days ago, I honestly thought videogames were “just another form of media” but I now understand they aren’t at all. They aren’t food. The interactive nature of videogames converts them to drugs… cigarettes. They are deserving of more criticism and attention because they’re so much more dangerous to society. I believe you can draw a direct line from gamergate to the ‘game’ of facebook and the Trump presidency.
I mean, the evidence is all around us. Here’s a chat log from our company today:
“Yikes, gamers” indeed. There was a time I would have been (mildly) offended by that. But now I get it. Now, I get it.
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Get what?
All I get from it is that the gaming community has assholes in it. Like, you know, pretty much any large community. 
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Any group that has people in it is going to contain a certain percentage of assholes; that’s pretty much inevitable.
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I mean… sort of? I’d say a community with a shared interest of “alcohol” is going to have a … disproportionate … number of a-holes, though. That’s certainly what we’ve seen to date with videogamers and videogame communities.
Remember for gamers, “it’s just for the lulz”. That’s what you get taught. That’s what gets reinforced.
I mean, you can sincerely get addicted to them so I think the comparison to drugs is not totally off base. Personally I don’t think the whole art form has to be written off, but game developers need to consider how much they want to accept encouraging addiction for profit as their dominant strategy and what they ultimately want their place in art and media to be about. Personally I think it’s writing games off in the first place that got us in this mess though.
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