Wonderful profile of Anita Sarkeesian, the feminist games critic who made an army of shitty manbabies very, very upset

The fact that we can’t have a god damn adult conversation about games and gaming is depressing. it’s shit like this that makes me realize how well and truly fucked humanity is. Because if we can’t talk about pop culture with it out devolving into trolling and snark (which is exactly what’s happening here), then we can’t talk about more important things like the economy and the environment, and come to any sorts of workable conclusions.

So, have fun, I guess, making fun of people who are simple attempting to make the culture that we all enjoy more inclusive, inviting, and interesting. But don’t think that you’re helping anyone here, yourself included, by doing so.

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Sarkeesian might have interesting points, but I think if she had created a great game which had great women characters THAT would have been THE most effective way to show people how to make a successful game that isn’t sexist.

Nah -it’s not gamers per se - it’s men.

Just like men shouldn’t be allowed to own guns - they should only be allowed to play Scrabble online. Maybe Candyland - certainly not Shoots and Ladders.

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Why should a critic be expected to create a whole new game? She isn’t a developer. That doesn’t mean her criticism of the way female characters are portrayed in games isn’t valid.

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Yes, because the industry has made socially awkward adolescent boys of all ages – known arseholes* – its top priority for 35+ years. It’s as if the wine industry made alcoholics its core market. It’s not a mystery why the community using that product is dominated by jerks.

[* I speak as a former one myself]

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I definitely agree that guns should be far more heavily regulated than they currently are – and perhaps videogames as well, at least at the cigarettes and booze level.

I feel you can draw a straight line directly from gamergate and videogames to the facebooks and the Trump presidency. It’s the exact same videogame mentality.

I mean, I can’t say that about “the Harry Potter fans”, or “Star Wars fans”. I never wanted to believe this, because I spent so much time on it in my youth, but there’s something deeply and profoundly rotten in the culture of videogaming. I used to get (mildly) offended when people criticized gamers, because what difference could it make, gaming is just another form of media, right, and everyone knows interactive computer stuff just has to be better, right? I mean, hell, I was part of a quake clan 15-20 years ago with super depressing human cost statistics and I didn’t even connect the dots.

I am a moron. I’ll never again talk about myself as a “gamer”, I’ll never encourage my kids to be “gamers”, and I’ll consider what gaming I do, to be akin to smoking outside the back of the building and something to be minimized and replaced with something better whenever possible. It might feel good but it’s not healthy.

Nah - it’s men.

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Again with this painting all people that love and enjoy video games with the same brush. Please, stop. It’s not adding anything constructive to the conversation.

“It’s for the lulz” is not a gamer thing, it’s an asshole thing.

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I visualise it more as a Venn diagram, with a subset of hardcore adolescent male capital-G Gamers sharing a lot of the same stunted attitudes toward women as those in the manosphere (MRAs, PUAs, incels, MGTOW, red-pillers, etc.). Gamergate thus acted as a gateway to the alt-right as much as Jordaddy or Ben Shapiro have, with Facebook and Twitter and their own horrible BBS’s and social networks acting as mediums for recruiting, radicalising, and organising.

That’s because JK Rowling and George Lucas were aiming for a broader audience with their AAA product than the video game industry has. An industry that’s more diverse in its hiring and marketing practises and creative decisions tends not to be one whose community of trufans is dominated by the kinds of dickheads who gravitate toward the alt-right.

That speaks more to a distrust in your own abilities as a parent and role model for your kids, and one that in my opinion sells yourself short. I and others here, including @orenwolf, regularly have played video games for decades – including blood-soaked FPS’s – enough to consider ourselves “gamers” and haven’t ended up as MAGgAts or MRAs any more than we’ve turned into the callous spree killers Jack Thompson discussed.

You can let your kids enjoy the storytelling and other positive aspects of gaming by joining them in the activity and monitoring it and curating what games they play and who they play them with.

You can say that about anything done to excess. That’s the place that many hardcore Gamers have found themselves, enabled by an industry that caters to them.

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the proof is in the pudding.

I just found her finger wagging a bit annoying. Show people what a great game is supposed to look like and people will want to imitate it.
And maybe SHE can’t create a game but she could put together a team that could.

Roger did co-write a screenplay…

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Did it meet the criteria @cecilia_FXX set of being “successful” (whatever that means)?

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Definitely cult status at least.

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If she really wanted to be taken seriously; she should have designed a next gen chip set.

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Nah, she should have built a Turing-complete computer from nothing but first principles, three toothpicks, and a small piece of chewing gum.

Anything less just proves she doesn’t know her arse from her elbow.

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:thinking: this is a persuasive argument, and yet… and yet… I think learning to go alcohol free, as much as you can, might be a bit better long term solution.

Sorry, have you not been on the internet since The Force Awakens came out? Star Wars fans (well, “fans”) have been screaming bloody murder about the franchise being “ruined” by SJWs and Kathleen Kennedy. They bullied Kelly Marie Tran off of Twitter. They submitted a petition in Aurebesh to strike The Last Jedi from canon. People who enjoyed The Last Jedi are frequently told to kill themselves. Chuck Wendig has several stalkers and trollies who harass him constantly because of the tie-in novels he wrote. There is a lot of fucked up shit happening in the Star Wars fandom right now.

Gamergate was exploited by right-wing people like Adam Baldwin (who coined it) and Christina Sommers. They took a relatively small hate mob aimed largely at Zoë Quinn (whipped up by her piece of shit boyfriend after she dumped him) and pointed it square at the eternal targets of right-wing ideology: feminism and diversity, growing its base by reframing it in more “neutral” terms, like “it’s about ethics in game journalism” (never mind the multitude of actual ethical issues in the gaming journalism niche like the paid reviews and industry-dictated access to pre-release copies of games based on fealty… there are WOMEN INVOLVED). Outlets like Kotaku and Polygon that had spoken positively about people like Anita Sarkeesian (or even just mentioned similar opinions about the state of gaming) were targeted because of their stances on diversity and inclusiveness, underscored by an idiotic demand that games journalism be “objective” (in much the same way conservatives cast aspersions against mainstream journalism for being “biased”). It’s not the same playbook because it was ported from Gamergate to the 2016 election, it’s the same playbook because conservatives (and later even more right-wing movements like neo-Nazis) applied an old standard to a new source of bubbling resentment.

They’ve repeated this playbook in comic books (remember the outrage over female Thor, or the black girl who became Iron Man?), movies (see Star Wars above, though the seeds of this in mainstream coverage go back to at least Idris Elba being cast as Heimdall), TV shows (to pull a seemingly impossible but actually real example from left field: there are neo-Nazi and alt-right bronies in the MLP fandom. They have a mascot. She’s a white pony with blonde hair named Aryanne. I am not joking.), and literature (the Sad Puppies trying to brigade the Hugo awards nomination and votingprocess, led by noted misogynist Vox Day).

In every instance, these have been spaces that were formerly perceived to be the sole provenance of (young) straight cis white men, in which marginalized communities have finally begun to make their voices heard. These communities are frequently outgrowths of nerd or pop culture, and I think it’s because of the deep emotional attachments people have with these products that the backlash has been as intense as it is. Those attachments are actively encouraged by the corporations that produce those products, because it’s profitable, and they can run so deep that they become part of a person’s identity. That can turn toxic fast. Anyone critiquing video games, or comic books, or movies—or making changes to those things—is not just someone doing something different or trying to spark a dialogue, they’re committing an attack on the identity of the people who enjoy those things.

Again, none of this is unique to games, and not all of it is even related to politics. A lot of it is just shitty people being given an opportunity to be shitty without any fear of repercussions. If gaming seems to be disproportionately represented in the shit-slingers, consider that gaming as a community largely grew up at the same time as the internet (and was in the same demographic as those with prodigious internet access and free time to use it), so much of its fan base is also internet-savvy, and there’s a massive cross-over between male-heavy tech culture and male-heavy gaming culture (and in both cases, women were actively excluded from being marketed to or supported once those things became remotely profitable or desirable).

The alt-right is just one outgrowth of the toxicity poisoning that hanging out in the depths of the internet engenders. The sorts of places where being edgy makes you cool, where liking things is bad (see also: “cringe culture”), and where causing offense and even trauma is a way to show how “above it all” you are. Mods are asleep, post child porn. Trick people into looking at goatse or 2girls1cup or lemon party. It’s all just “lulz”, I’m only joking, stop being so sensitive. Gaming, as a medium that grew up largely in the age of the internet, is particularly thick with these shitty wannabe edgelord idiots, but it’s not the video games that are the cause. It’s ultimately a result of the toxic definition of masculinity permeating our entire culture that drives boys and men to bury their feelings and their empathy, combined with how easy it is to “other” people when you can’t see them face-to-face, and that’s a practice that’s as old as time itself.

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Weirdly enough, when you look at meta studies people that drink usually outlive tee-totallers by a small margin on average. So a moderated consumption of this particular addictive substance may actually be healthy.

But shaky as it is this analogy actually holds some merit. In a lot of countries alcohol advertisements have to contain a phrase like “drink responsibly”. But that is only targeting the addictive nature of alcohol, there are no rules targeting the media content of alcoholic beverages because wine doesn’t contain a media experience.

And in this thread we are not talking about the dangers of the addictiveness of games. We are talking about the critiqing of the story elements of games, and why this critique is so scary to a vocal minority of “Gamers” that it warrants extreme harrasment. As a (very) recently converted gamer maybe you can shed some light on why that is?

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I remember the raging manbabies upset at there being both a female and black character shown in the trailer for TFA.

God forbid in a fantasy world with FTL travel, mafiosi slug creatures, clone armies, world destroying planet sized spaceships, fantastical alien species, sentient robots, and magic space wizards that you dare tell a story that doesn’t revolve around a white dude.

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It’s wildly disproportionately represented.

The videogame culture is what scares me the most. There’s something deeply wrong with these people, what they do to others. The alcohol analogy carries – perhaps exposure turns “hardcore” gamers into abusers at a much higher rate than other forms of media?

Do you remember all the work Riot did with League of Legends, the tribunal, all the anti-abuse stuff? I considered this admirable, cutting-edge work, and it was…

… and then it was revealed that Riot was totally toxic on the inside THE WHOLE TIME.

This blew my mind :exploding_head:

Really, I should have seen all this coming. My quake clan from 20 years ago, with 10 men who have 3 divorces, one child molesting felony, and one spousal abuse felony split among them. Riot telling people how it was fighting toxicity in its player abase when all along it was toxic as hell on the inside. Feminist Frequency deciding “hey let’s write about games” and then getting railroaded into oblivion by idiots. But no, as a gamer myself, I felt “games are just another kind of media, there’s nothing special here, people saying that gaming is especially toxic are just wrong”.

Well, they weren’t wrong. I was wrong.

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Gaming is toxic, maybe in a “not all games” way it isn’t all 100% toxic, but certainly toxic enough as an industry to be considered alcoholic content that you should be age 18 before drinking.

Facebook is just another symptom. We’ve turned everything into a videogame, with no drinking age, no limits… no consequences.