BLM protests at Sanders rally

So it appears that Sanders has been adapting his message lately, specifically to cater more towards the activists that keep interrupting him. To me, this makes it clear that their pushing him has had actual good effects - and to attack them while praising Sanders is basically to be a racist ass ignoring the hard work and the gains the BLM movement has made in lieu of praising a white dude who wasn’t even doing the right thing until he was called out on it.

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@Falcor

@dragonchild12 has been responding indirectly to some of the content within my posts. This last post from @dragonchild12 was polite and devoid of off-topic personal attacks and I commend him for it. It gives me hope we can have dialog without personal attacks and have a constructive conversation.

@Falcor, with your permission, I’d like to respond to his post above (and only that post specifically) in kind (politely and on-topic).

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Nope, sorting it.

My problem is not really with Sanders… I agree he’s moving his message in response to BLM and that is what I wanted to see. My problem is with your insistence that they only politely engage with Sanders, and what you deem acceptable terms. I don’t think that’s fair or for you to say. You say you support BLM. That’s great. We all should. But - if you are white, I don’t know that you are, and I don’t want to make assumptions - if they are doing something, whatever it is, it’s really not up to you to police their tone or rhetoric. It’s not up to me to police their tone or rhetoric, or to step in if they decide they don’t want white allies in on their work. What did Stokely Carmichael say when he kicked white members out of SNCC? Go back to your own white communities and do the hard work there? I think he was well within his right to do so, yet there was a huge white progressive backlash from some.

And FYI, here is the response to the commentary that Hamiliton Nolan posted on Gawker yesterday, which lays out some of the problematic language he used and why it’s problematic.

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I am happy to see that he CAN be moved, however, rather than doubling down when he has done or said something problematic. Too many politicians just double down or change positions with whatever looks good in their focus groups. Sanders, instead has actively responded to real world criticism from a specific community and that’s what he should be doing, I think.

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You couldn’t be more wrong in this scenario. The last attack on Sanders is pushing both POC and whites in droves against aspects of the BLM whether they are currently Sanders supporters or not. Calling all Seattle Sanders supporters “white supremacist racists” and spouting absolute lies against Sanders as well is hurting BLM, not helping.

Fortunately for the BLM organization, most of Sanders supporters know that those who attacked Sanders and his supporters the other day are a fringe element of the overall movement against police brutality and racism. That’s why others and myself still ardently support BLM (overall).

However…

The longer the BLM destructively only focuses on Sanders and his supporters with those kind of vicious attacks while remaining absolutely silent on Hillary Clinton, the more people will be looking outside of the BLM organization for grassroots support against police brutality and racism.

The last scenario was a mistake for the BLM movement. It should never be repeated against Sanders again unless he does something to deserve it and he fucking does NOT, nor does his supporters deserve what happened in that last attack.

It’s very well beyond time for the BLM to go after Hillary Clinton who on an excruciating number of levels has shown that she will throw most of the BLM movement under the bus after she’s elected. Sanders will not do this. Unlike Hillary Clinton, both his past record and current actions in 2015 show this.

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[quote=“Mindysan33, post:93, topic:63379”]
My problem is with your insistence that they only politely engage with Sanders, and what you deem acceptable terms.
[/quote]Then you have a problem with the majority of blacks who are against you. The last attack on Sanders was met with overwhelming derision from blacks and many others like myself who otherwise support the overall movement against police brutality and racism.

Please stop treating the BLM movement like an infant that can do no wrong. It’s insulting and bordering on racism itself.

The BLM screwed up. Many of us within the BLM movement now know this. The BLM movement needs to adjust strategy over time and spouting outright, divisive LIES against Sanders and his supporters (while giving Hillary Clinton a partisan pass) isn’t productive, it’s the very opposite.

The BLM organization needs Sanders supporters (and the many POC that support Sanders), not the other way around. Sanders wants BLM supporters, he doesn’t need them. There are other grassroots organizations that are fighting police brutality and racism. If the BLM organization loses focus and allows itself to implode, it will be on the back of those who stupidly continue to engage in partisan lies against Sanders while ignoring Hillary Clinton, not supporters of Sanders.

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You know I can disagree right and that they can disagree with each other?

How am I doing that? You’re the one tone policing. For example, your insistence (not mine, or Sanders, but yours), that they protest people YOU think they need to protest - not the people they feel they need to protest. Given that this is a local organization, addressing local concerns, it makes sense to do this in their own context - at an event that wasn’t even a Sanders event, but an event where he was speaking, in protest of local progressive who they feel are ignoring issues of race in Seattle - likely because they feel they are being ignored:

So if they don’t “get in line”… then… what.

I feel like I’ve disagreed with you and been respectful - if I haven’t been I apologize. I wish you’d extend me the same courtesy.

You just made me spit out my milk and laugh at your absolute hypocrisy.

[quote=“Mindysan33, post:98, topic:63379”]
For example, your insistence (not mine, or Sanders, but yours), that they protest people YOU think they need to protest - not the people they feel they need to protest.
[/quote]Please get real. I am just one voice of many people that are very upset with BLM acting in a partisan manner.

You are the one who is telling blacks and other POC to shut the fuck up about the BLM movement, not me. Most blacks and other POC are very clearly saying that the last move from those who chose to shout down Sanders and supporters with outright LIES was wrong.

If you think we can’t say that telling lies is wrong, then it’s you that needs deep introspection, not all the blacks and others like me who are against it.

[quote=“Mindysan33, post:98, topic:63379”]
So if they don’t “get in line”… then… what.
[/quote]If radical aspects of the BLM movement don’t stop telling partisan lies against Sanders and his supporters, black people (and many others) will eventually shun that specific organization and look to support other grassroots organizations that are against police brutality and racism that don’t practice non-productive tactics like that.

I’ve already said this, please go back and read my posts if you missed it.

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Wow. Once again, I feel I’ve attempted to be respectful and you’ve accused me of being racist and of being a hypocrite. Clearly I shouldn’t engage with you anymore on this topic. I’m sorry that this is the case. I like you @Cowicide, and was seriously trying to find some common ground, and I’m very sorry that we can’t.

Good luck in your work for the campaign and for whatever activism that you do in the future.

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[quote=“Mindysan33, post:100, topic:63379”]
I feel I’ve attempted to be respectful and you’ve accused me of being racist and of being a hypocrite.
[/quote]I apologize for making you feel that way, but I do think treating the BLM movement like a child that can do no wrong is bordering on racism.

[quote=“Mindysan33, post:100, topic:63379”]
I like you @Cowicide[/quote]

I like you as well, but I think it’s a shame that you’re more apt to spew devisive talking points at me and utilize straw man arguments instead of engaging with things I’ve actually written.

I’m tired of you shouting down at me. And, frankly, my black compatriots are also tired of it coming from extremist elements within the BLM movement as well.

[quote=“Mindysan33, post:100, topic:63379”]
Good luck in your work for the campaign and for whatever activism that you do in the future.
[/quote]Thank you, and I wish you the same.

Had to get in one more pot shot?

Give me a break. I responded to your post. It’s not about getting the last word. If the truth hurts, then so be it.

Prove me wrong. Is there anything the BLM movement has done wrong? You have not mentioned a damn thing despite the fact some elements of the organization spew outright LIES against Bernie Sanders and his supporters (that are composed of POC).

Fine. You’re right. I’m a racist, hypocritical bigot. Happy. You won.

Once again, you’re not listening and instead you’re talking down to me. Do the BLM movement a favor and stop treating the org like a child and while you’re at it, stop acting like you represent it when you’re going to spew straw man arguments while outright insultingly ignoring what someone else is saying to you.

You and others that engage in straw man arguments while not listening to others is hurting the BLM movement. Most blacks and other POC agree with me on that. And, yes, attacking constructive criticism of the BLM organization is counter-productive.

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I don’t disagree that some of their rhetoric is melodramatic and designed for maximum impact, rather than being founded on (from my POV) what constitutes sound reasoning, but I still think that the fuss, the interdiction part of the act really is necessary.

It might end up being a step backwards to some degree for that style of rhetoric but the impact has been made and I think the result will be greater engagement. Propaganda’s weird, bro. :wink:

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No fighting in the war room!!

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I don’t think you realize how many people (black Americans and other POC, etc.) are now beginning to recoil from the BLM organization at large, or at the very least recoiling from the specific tactics used the other day that I’ve been addressing within this thread.

Here is just one Facebook post of many that now has about 7 MILLION views since only yesterday:

Please read the top comments from blacks and other people of color. Please listen to what they are saying.

They’re overwhelmingly positive towards Bernie while overwhelmingly negative towards the BLM organization. This is not good for the BLM movement. This stinks because I support the BLM, however the one-sided, partisan attacks of hyperbole and lies against Sanders is already backfiring and setting the BLM backwards.

I also don’t think you realize how powerful and huge the movement (with blacks and POC) behind Sanders has become. People really shouldn’t screw with us with partisan lies because we WILL call them out. There WILL be repercussions.

Constructive criticism? Fine.

Partisan lies? Not fine. We will spread the truth. Expect us.

That’s not a threat, it’s a promise. Too much is at stake and the corporate media will compliantly spread those partisan lies if we simply sit on our hands and let that bullshit stand. We’re not going to do that. We are not John Kerry’s weak campaign. We are not Howard Dean’s campaign. We are in this to win.

Being disruptive is one thing, but telling outright, vicious, partisan lies against Sanders and his supporters (who also happen to be POC) is quite another. For example, spreading the lie that Sanders’ supporters in Seattle are “white supremacist racists” (as they did) is a fantastic way to have the BLM organization lose wide support and implode on itself.

A long time ago, some marketing agencies spread the oft-repeated mantra that “all publicity is good publicity”. That’s untrue. The reality is bad publicity more often has regressive, destructive overall effects on organizations. If the BLM organization keeps utilizing outright partisan lies against Sanders, they will implode and it will hurt the overall movement against police brutality to some extent as well.

I’ll put it this way, most people wouldn’t normally even blink an eye that funding for the BLM organization happened to come from the same billionaire that’s funding Hillary Clinton’s campaign. However, when extremist elements within the BLM organization start spreading actual lies against Sanders and his supporters while remaining completely and utterly silent on Hillary Clinton – The BLM is going to look increasingly like a partisan Hillary Clinton hit squad against Bernie Sanders. This is destructive on multiple levels considering all the support from POC that Sanders already has (despite what the corporate media tells you).

We need to be moving forward in unity, not backwards. Telling lies is going backwards.

Disruption is good. Partisan lies are bad.

This is Killer Mike:

Time for some of you white, ivory tower liberals on Boing Boing to to push aside your own cherished ideologies and listen to what black people are actually saying in huge numbers.

The BLM organization screwed up.

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nice thread