xeni at August 22nd, 2013 21:36 — #1
captainpedge at August 22nd, 2013 21:44 — #2
While I doubt she will receive a pardon, I think anyone who read that statement (or an anonymised version of it) would have little doubt that the feeling behind it is of love for one's country, and a love and respect for life.
I also get the impression many will write it off as a platitude to try to get let off.
donald_petersen at August 22nd, 2013 21:47 — #3
If you deny my request for a pardon, I will serve my time knowing that sometimes you have to pay a heavy price to live in a free society. I will gladly pay that price if it means we could have a country that is truly conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all women and men are created equal.
Now that there is the statement of what I used to think of as a True American. A whole lotta somebodies oughta be ashamed of themselves, but Chelsea Manning ain't one of them.
nickyg at August 22nd, 2013 21:57 — #4
Am I mistaken? Or did Manning sign up for the armed forces well beyond the time most of us knew that the war in Iraq was wrong and illegal? I'm sorry, but I still don't see the heroism. S/he has no excuse to pretend to be naive of what s/he was signing up for, that upon coming into knowledge of the facts, it was oath-breakingly worthwhile to do so, to the point where s/he feels the sentence is wrong. Give me a break. I am totally against the Iraq war -- the one that Manning willfully signed up to help perpetrate. I still don't think a pardons in any way shape or form to be expected.
donald_petersen at August 22nd, 2013 22:08 — #5
Didja read the statement?
It was not until I was in Iraq and reading secret military reports on a daily basis that I started to question the morality of what we were doing. It was at this time that I realized that our efforts to meet the risk posed to us by the enemy, we had forgotten our humanity. We consciously elected to devalue life both in Iraq and Afghanistan. When we engaged those that we perceived were the enemy, we sometimes killed innocent civilians. Whenever we killed innocent civilians, instead of accepting responsibility for our conduct, we elected to hide behind the veil of national security and classified information in order to avoid any public accountability.
Yeah, I think you're mistaken.
falcor at August 24th, 2013 06:37 — #6
I moved 40 posts to an existing topic: How to refer to Chelsea Manning
peggyh at August 22nd, 2013 22:35 — #9
Wow! Brave lady and a hero indeed! I doubt Obama's got the guts to give her the pardon she deserves but I hope he at least intervenes and doesn't allow the Army to put her in with the men at Leavenworth. Because if I know the Army, (and dickish, vindictive officers), that's where she's heading.
glyphgryph at August 22nd, 2013 23:28 — #18
*may be limited to crimes that put the powers-that-be in a bad light. If you commit crimes that make them look good, you'll be fine.
tempurachicken at August 23rd, 2013 00:00 — #19
It's worth reading Warrior Princess's response on Facebook just for an interesting and relevant POV...
kmoser at August 23rd, 2013 00:52 — #22
Disagreeing with certain decisions made by the higher-ups in the military does not preclude one from wanting to serve one's country, and even joining those armed forces that may have been occasionally misdirected.
rocketpj at August 23rd, 2013 01:00 — #23
Most people join the military at 18 or so - not what I would call a pinnacle of wisdom and experience. Much to the contrary - I'm sure militaries know that they for the cannon fodder ranks they need to get them young.
I knew the war was insane, but I was in my 30s when it began. I don't know her background, but I do know that I don't want to be held permanently responsible for the stupid choices and opinions I held at 18. (At the time I thought I was a conservative - ack).
chriscoreline at August 23rd, 2013 03:06 — #24
trolls be trollin, we bitin'
davide405 at August 23rd, 2013 09:47 — #51
Is it just me, or have we completely drifted away from the nominal purpose of this thread?
I thought we would be talking about Manning's statement upon sentencing. It appears instead that the vast majority of our words, attention, and outrage have been deflected to arguments over which pronoun to use when referring to that brave person.
synesthesia at August 23rd, 2013 10:02 — #52
Really? We've gone to pronouns? This is pathetic. Can we re-rail this to the problem at hand? I know being right is the most important thing in the world, but come on.
awjt at August 23rd, 2013 11:26 — #56
My mother was talking about how Chelsea was a man and now wants be a woman, not derisively, but just kind of annoyed at the whole thing. I said, "Mom do you know why she's in prison? It's because she released classified information." "Oh, really?" "And do you know what was in that classified information? It was full of videos of American soldiers killing obviously unarmed civilians in Iraq. The government was trying to cover it up. That's why she's in prison." "Oh, wow, I didn't know that." My mother's eyes were opened because she didn't have the facts. Every time someone wants to deride Ms. Manning, I will remind them of these facts.
falcor at August 23rd, 2013 16:08 — #57
Let's all get back on topic and stop arguing about pronoun usage.
donald_petersen at August 23rd, 2013 16:54 — #58
I gotta admit, I was expecting a bit more discussion in this thread about her case, rather than about the niceties of grammar. Which, I also admit, is out of character for me.
falcor at August 23rd, 2013 17:59 — #60
Anymore discussion on pronoun usage here will be deleted
EDIT: I reopened http://bbs.boingboing.net/t/how-to-refer-to-chelsea-manning/7501/14 for now
falcor at August 24th, 2013 06:28 — #63
I moved loads of posts to an existing topic: How to refer to PFC Manning
xeni at August 27th, 2013 21:36 — #64
This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.