John Oliver on Ferguson and police militarization - must-watch video

Well, lots of people aren’t paying attention since only 33% of white people think there might be a problem with how the local police is handling the shooting.

And which issue do you think politicians are more likely to address: black/white inequality, or the militarization of police?

A black man (in a 70% black town) is shot with by a white policeman (on a police force that is 6% black) using a handgun (which police in the US have long carried), and the coalition you think we should be building is about militarization of the police, and not racism? Why is that the coalition? Would Brown be alive if the police didn’t have APCs and assault rifles? Is this de-militarization process going to result in firearm-free police like we see in other countries?

But hey, I guess I shouldn’t be disparaging this coalition and alienating people by pointing out things like this. Or maybe the anti-militarization people should get behind the anti-racism coalition and try to get them to work with people concerned about another related issue, like anti-militarization.

Saying someone doesn’t deserve to die isn’t the same thing as defending them. Criticising the police and institutional racism isn’t the same thing as defending the victim.

Or they’re simply mistreating black people in different ways. Back in the days of slavery there were no SWAT teams, and thus no SWAT raids on black families, so I guess it’s also clearly untrue that there was more mistreatment of black under slavery.

What do we know about the character of Wilson? Well, he was born to a teenage mother and was raised with half-siblings after his father left. His mother was convicted of multiple felonies and was accused of many more at the time of her death (which sounds like it may have been suicide), when Wilson was 16. He got divorced a couple of years ago after a short marriage. Can we do some gross stereotyping from this and pretend we get insights into Wilson’s character? Sure, and I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what you’re doing when you quote people as saying “we wasn’t doing nuttin’,” as though their grammar makes them less worthy, less truthful, or somehow objectionable. If Brown was raised in a single-parent family with an absent father and a teenage mother I’m sure people would try to draw conclusions from that. But this information isn’t very relevant, and highly prejudicial, which is why it wouldn’t be allowed in a court of law. And yet you have the gall to talk about how people are being mislead by the “mainstream media” who are twisting things, all the while trying to bring up irrelevant information about Brown and impugn a witness as though the way he talks makes him a liar.

You are mistaken. The police released statements saying that the officer was assaulted in his car, that Brown reached for the weapon, and that the officer suffered a bruised eye.

First you say you’ll take someone word that the skull was not broken, then you assert as a matter of fact that the skull was broken and that he was assaulted. As for me, I probably wouldn’t trust the person who shot an unarmed teenager six times (including the inner arms, which are normally concealed but which are visible when you have your hands up).

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Ok, fair enough… for now, I will take your word for it.

Now, did you personally apply that same measure of criticism and devotion to truth in the early days of this story?

They not made any statements. Am I mistaken, Professor?

We must concede that we trust certain persons with the tools that kill.

Who would you rather trust someone who just broke a civil servants skull or the one that just got assaulted?

I had no reason to doubt the “unarmed young black man gunned down by police officer” part of the story because everyone, including the Ferguson PD, seemed to be in agreement on that central fact. As far as I can tell everyone is still in agreement on that central fact.

Yes. Quite mistaken. Clearly the Ferguson PD hasn’t been shy about releasing reports implying that the person who got shot was up to no good, so why would they omit the part where he supposedly cracked the skull of the officer who shot him?

I still haven’t seen any evidence that happened. Even if it had, Michael Brown was dozens of feet away from the officer when he was shot so the “taking the cop’s gun” narrative makes no sense.

What sequence of events are you imagining here?

  1. Brown breaks cop’s skull
  2. Runs away
  3. Brown remembers that he meant to steal the cop’s gun, but it slipped his mind when he was breaking the cop’s skull
  4. Brown runs back toward angry, armed cop who is now pointing a firearm directly at him (because he wants to steal it)
  5. Gets shot five times in head and body, keeps running toward cop, taken down by bullet #6
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You seem to have access to a lot of details about this event that aren’t common knowledge in the “mainstream media”.

From what I’ve read that seems even close to solid, the kid was implicated in the theft of a box of cigars from a convenience store, but Wilson did not know that and got into an exchange with him for jaywalking, ended up shooting at him at a distance as he tried to flee, then chased him down and killed him.

Your posts read like a clumsy attempt to blame the victim, and I find them pretty fucking offensive. I’d like to see your sources.

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In my above quoted post, I did not name any specific issues. This was intentional. I wasn’t trying to argue for the greater importance of either issue, but merely to point out the possible advantages of trying to find common ground to work together on, rather than fighting amongst ourselves. Forming a coalition does not mean that either party has to change its mind about what the most important issue is. They merely have to decide that, in this instance, joint action can benefit their cause.

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One thing at a time ( I’m not very smart )

To begin: lets play with this quote of yours, Professor.

When is is acceptable for law enforcement personnel to 'gunn down an unarmed person?

Sometimes?

Never?

What you’re saying is that the minority voice should bow and scrape to the majority voice, and that if the majority voice decides that militarization of the police is the real issue when a black man is shot by a white man using a traditional firearm, then the minority should accept that view and go along with it, and hope that maybe there’s some spillover into anti-racism activism.

All this does is duplicate the fundamental problem of racism suffered by minorities, and it’s understandable that minorities don’t want to once again be marginalized, especially when the origin of the entire controversy was clearly race-based and not militarization-based. And it’s even worse, because you get to have self-righteous people (as seen in numerous comments here) castigate the minority community for not getting on board with (ancillary) issues that the majority “coalition” have deemed to be more interesting to them.

People who aren’t very smart shouldn’t play with the Socratic method, much less call someone else “Professor” while doing so.

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The only time it’s acceptable for a law enforcement officer to use lethal force against anyone is to save a life. I’ve yet to see one iota of evidence that this was the case here.

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No, it’s cool. I actually do teach college so people call me “Professor” all the time.

Why anyone is defending the cop and raising money for him is a mystery to me. He’s alive - and on paid leave. Apparently when the redneck PD were about to release his name, they went and picked him up to take him somewhere “safe”. He was in the middle of mowing his lawn. I know when I’ve got a lot to think about I like to mow the lawn.

The dude clearly didn’t give a fuck about what he did and expected for it to all blow over. If, after a trial has taken place, he is found to have acted properly, THEN you can start defending him. Until then we should presume he could be either guilty OR not, but so many people seem to want to defend him right now despite the fact that they’re mostly talking out of their arse.

Last year a terrible thing happened in Sydney that has STRONG similarities to this case. A guy tripping on acid (1/3 of a tab, so… I really don’t know how hard he could’ve been tripping) was acting weird in a convenience store. Dude decided to steal in open sight a packet of biscuits (cookies, Americans) before running out of the store. A ridiculously disproportionate police response took place which ended in a pile of cops tackling him, emptying 2+ cans of pepper spray on the guy, tazed him at least 7 times, resulting in him having cardiac arrest and dying on the street.

Those cops were using NON-LETHAL techniques and despite the fact that they were responding to an actual crime, unlike officer shit-for-brains here, they’re getting charged for assault (and were called thuggish by the magistrate) “On 13 December 2013, the Director of Public Prosecutions announced that two of the officers were to be charged with common assault, and a further two officers were to be charged with assault occasioning actual bodily harm.”

Fucking sad, but this is how you deal with this situation America: Seriously punish cops found guilty of wrongdoing.

RIP Beto Laudisio

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I have said what I have said. I have not said what I have not said.

Just because I am a trolley I ask that you dont misunderstand my use of the honorific, “Professor”. I have great respect for those who honor knowledge and learning.

Hint: many of my questions are “Socratic”

And I placed what you said in the context of this situation and these issues—something you intentionally refused to do—explaining why those who believe the issue is racism may not be willing to bow to the majority voice and join a coalition around the ancillary issue of militarization.

Hint: that’s why I called them Socratic. But thanks, Professor.

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What if the life you intend to save is, at least, your own. In this case I think you would agree that is ok to shoot?

If the officer thought that while he was under attack he may lose consciousness and therefore control of his weapon?

In what way does this not sound reasonable?

People’s Front of Judea!

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The fear of loss of life must be objectively reasonable. So an officer’s subjective fear is not sufficient.

And if this officer thought he would lose consciousness perhaps he should have stayed in his car. Plus, because this seems to have escaped you, fear of losing one’s weapon does not equal an objectively reasonable fear of being killed. Wilson didn’t fear for his life when he stopped Brown for jaywalking. He didn’t fear for his life when they scuffled. He didn’t fear for his life when he chased him. But all of a sudden Wilson fears for his life when Brown turns around, because this jaywalker has morphed into a stone-cold cop killer in under a minute? Yeah, sounds reasonable.

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Who gives a fuck? What is your source indicating that this was in fact the situation? All accounts I’ve seen indicate that the victim was fleeing, that the first FIVE fucking shots weren’t fatal, but that the last shot to the head was.

The cop’s gun seems to have been steadfastly in his control the whole time, so can you stop now.

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Then try to make racism the dominant issue in people’s minds, but I don’t think calling people ignorant is the best way to go about it. That’s why I stepped into this particular debate. If you’ll page up some, don’t blame you if you don’t care to, I stated that I personally was more concerned about racism than police militarization. So it bothered me that some were determined to turn people off of this issue by insulting them.

Ooh, I got one! What if Michael Brown was actually a tyrannosaurus?

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He would be little fight to the giant space goat that looms behind the moon that is our real worry right now.