beschizza — 2013-12-20T10:41:05-05:00 — #1
jasonlanejson — 2013-12-20T10:49:55-05:00 — #2
it's up to a defendant to demonstrate that the dog was improperly trained.
Well that has been demonstrated after the fact.
sarah_jones — 2013-12-20T10:56:42-05:00 — #3
Exactly! I can't imagine being in that situation. Can't you demand a lawyer, or call the ACLU or anything to prevent being violated? The worst is being financially strong armed into "consenting" to the CT scan. Is it possible to refuse to allow a drug sniffing dog near you without probable cause? What protections do we have?
jasonlanejson — 2013-12-20T11:02:52-05:00 — #4
Get the war on drugs ended. It's failed. Time to move on.
overtonewiz — 2013-12-20T11:03:00-05:00 — #5
the only protections we have at this point are Jedi mind tricks
sarah_jones — 2013-12-20T11:05:30-05:00 — #6
"this isn't the cavity you're looking for" - sounds like a plan Overtonewiz
prestonsturges — 2013-12-20T11:07:01-05:00 — #7
Can someone demand to have a lawyer present?
Also, how does a doctor at a hospital end up participating in a session of what amounts to rape and torture without professional consequences. How does the hospital avoid being picketed?
nothingsm0nstrd — 2013-12-20T11:12:09-05:00 — #8
From the stories that keep coming up, this seems to be a routine matter for these cops and doctors. How many cases are we not hearing about?
Perhaps people should ask the Texas Medical Board to clarify for medical personnel that medically-unnecessary, non-consensual invasive procedures are assault.
jared_kaufman — 2013-12-20T11:18:49-05:00 — #9
I think that if the punishment was the same as the crime multiplied by, say, 10x then these incidents would probably start declining. Even faster if the first few cops/doctors' punishments were televised...
dacree — 2013-12-20T11:25:42-05:00 — #10
Where are the criminal rape charges against the medical workers? Start prosecuting medical rape and it will end in short order.
jasonlanejson — 2013-12-20T11:27:12-05:00 — #11
The Cops should not be allowed in the police force to carry on "Cop'ng" equally the doctors should no longer be allowed to "Doctor". Both have amply proved they are not capable of doing those jobs as they need to be done.
themetalpedant — 2013-12-20T11:52:24-05:00 — #12
I think that's the most terrifying part for me. Sitting comfortably at home, I can say, "Yes, I'd demand a lawyer and refuse to submit." But if I were in that situation, and terrified of additional violence/tasering/what-have-you perpetrated by people who have already clearly indicated that they will not respect my rights, and that doctors WILL HELP, what can one do? I'd be curious to hear from lawyers or other experts about what one should do in this situation.
ejeffrey — 2013-12-20T11:56:17-05:00 — #13
It is easy to focus on the assault and rape, which are horrifying, but I think people also need to understand what a serious breach of medical ethics giving a CT scan in this situation is. CT scans subject the patient to a significant amount of radiation (much more than a simple x-ray) and should only be used for valid medical reasons when balancing the radiation exposure against the benefit. Doctors refuse should to perform CT scans to aid in searches even if the police have a warrant and the subject consents, and state medical boards should be punishing doctors who perform unnecessary medical procedures like this.
lemoutan — 2013-12-20T12:10:17-05:00 — #14
She did absolutely the right thing by refusing to sign the consent. It was the truthful expression of her momentary reality. To accept the billing was also the rational thing to do. A bill can be contested later, in calmer circumstances. Especially since you've signed nothing.
lemoutan — 2013-12-20T12:13:28-05:00 — #15
Seems there's some justification for scanning the brains of these particular cops'n'docs in an attempt to better understand what the phuque is wrong with these people - to use medical terminology.
jardine — 2013-12-20T12:22:05-05:00 — #16
Who's going to arrest them?
acerplatanoides — 2013-12-20T12:26:31-05:00 — #17
Seems there has been a concerted effort to take America down a few pegs for the last decade or so. A concerted effort from the inside,
How could the nation i grew up in formally endorse torture in war? Or militarize the police? Or fence in free speech zones? Or require the occasional cavity search at customs in order to travel "freely"?
zoidberg — 2013-12-20T12:32:27-05:00 — #18
Yes.The Texas Medical Board has the ability to both clarify their ethical rules and to discipline or suspend doctors for misconduct.
The hospital's administration and policies may also be worth looking at, and public outcry could bring pressure from its educational affiliates. Texas Tech has a very close relationship with the hospital.
myopichumanist — 2013-12-20T12:37:44-05:00 — #19
Let's be honest, the America of yesteryear did some pretty questionable stuff too. It wasn't until a few decades ago we had any sort of protection for the press. I think 2000 was the best year we had until the terrorists won and gave us 16 years of terrified presidents.
Drug sniffing dogs are trained to freak out at pretty much anything- what if she had just eaten a sandwich and the dog wanted it? They also shove their noses directly into the drugs they do find, which messes with their brains, just like a human.
Why the hell are these numbskulls so desperate to find something on a random citizen? Did they realize they screwed up at some point and just kept going in a bid to exonerate their actions? It seems like the ACLU and other nonprofits like it are the only thing that keeps anyone with power under scrutiny anymore. And the right to speech is an intractable right, but the badge is a power granted by other people.
acerplatanoides — 2013-12-20T12:46:36-05:00 — #20
Why the hell are these numbskulls so desperate to find something on a random citizen?
I think the key there is random citizen. That could be you or me, right?
So you and I should be afraid, all the time, of authority, because. just because.
And what IS the point of that? There pretty much has to be one. I'm not claiming precise knowledge of what that is, but the general goal seems to be a compliant populace who choose not to use the rights that we have to shake things up.
That seems to be a bit different than past generations. They did nasty things in our name, but at least they lied about it rather than setting a legal precedent with it.
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