doctorow — 2014-02-16T12:03:08-05:00 — #1
inma — 2014-02-16T12:21:49-05:00 — #2
And there it is! Finally the prove that the boundary has been crossed. I am perplex at the mild response of foreign countries had to these revelations. Isn't incentive enough for the NSA to spy on Airbus price dealings, or potential large contracts in the name of "national interest"?!
Europe should not just recriminate fierily, but start working on securing communications for officials and corporations alike.
jborgardt — 2014-02-16T12:37:32-05:00 — #3
Again, for all to see. Humans, your politicians and government, shall never be trusted for any excuse; Whether it be terrorism, dominance, or fear.
We have a 4th amendment within the bill of rights.
No, kinda sorta, maybe, think about it processes.... It is illegal. Signing some petition or document to limit or to have them explain why - is ridiculous.
They need to be tried for treason.
You have rights. Please understand fellow Americans over time it will get worse and they will create an Orwellian state. It has happened because it is human nature. They did not mentally think one day out of the blue "oh, ok let's see if we can create what's in this book and hundreds of other examples throughout history". They did it because it is inevitable. The founding fathers understood this and made an amendment, limiting this from happening. Use it.
backtoyoujim — 2014-02-16T13:43:06-05:00 — #4
It seems that the old imperial chestnut "Trade follows the Flag" is a tautology in a fascist state.
ffabian — 2014-02-16T13:48:42-05:00 — #5
Yeah another US industry ruined by the NSA. First IT and Tech, now law and consulting (the later admittedly not as depending on international customers as the former). I guess the damages to european and asian companies by the economic espionage are more than compensated by the new influx of customers now actively avoiding the US.
themetalpedant — 2014-02-16T14:06:41-05:00 — #6
What's the big deal? I paid the NSA to wiretap all of my neighbors' phones and internet connections to find out who was leaving dog poop on my lawn. They're really very accommodating people when you get to know them.
melted_crayons — 2014-02-16T14:19:09-05:00 — #7
But then they want your first born in return. You find that out afterwards.
teapot — 2014-02-16T18:52:09-05:00 — #8
All the indignant people calling for people to be tried for treason (especially in instances where no treason has occurred) should be tried for treason!
@inma Countries are pissed about this. Angela Merkel got quite cranky at Obama for tapping her phone and the Indonesians are already angry at Australia for tapping the president and his wife's private mobiles. They withdrew their ambassador and have suspended cooperation on (illegal and immoral) anti-people-smuggling operations.
jerwin — 2014-02-16T19:04:57-05:00 — #9
Don't celebrate until you've seen their bill.
jansob1 — 2014-02-16T19:50:03-05:00 — #10
Way too late. We're the frog in the pot wondering if perhaps it's getting a bit hot in here. Congressional Republicans were happy with total surveillance and a militarized police because it "protected us from the bad guys" and promised to keep the jails full. Congressional Democrats are ok with it with it now because it's being used to ensure a permanent Democratic majority and enforce an ever-growing thicket of regulations.
The Constitution is irrelevant when the justice system is no longer independent, and the executive branch can see, hear and read everything their political opponents do.
teapot — 2014-02-16T22:45:31-05:00 — #11
We're the lobotomised frog in the pot...
howlingeverett — 2014-02-16T23:35:46-05:00 — #12
To be frank, while I'm angry (though not surprised) at the ASIC operation because of its connotations when it comes to Australian involvement in mass surveillance, calling it corporate espionage is a bit of a stretch.
Indonesia is Australia's nearest northern neighbour, and is the target of the majority of the country's international espionage (and vice versa, although Indonesia also has to worry more immediately about Singapore and China). Corporate espionage is about one corporation stealing information from another for financial gain. While an American law firm was involved in this operation (and it's pretty messed up that the NSA would let ASIC spy on Americans as a means to get to Indonesia), it's almost certain that the point of the operation was classic political espionage: being able to listen to the phone conversations of Indonesian politicians and bureaucrats.
Our toad-headed PM isn't exactly making any friends in Indonesia (you may remember the recent wiretapping of the Indonesian PM scandal), and this news isn't going to make things any easier for diplomatic relations (that is if we have any diplomatic relations left).
jckspratt1 — 2014-02-17T08:36:42-05:00 — #13
Except that both of these incidents took place whilst we were being 'governed' by Labor - who (along with you, apparently) are now conveniently forgetting that and trying to shift blame to the new government.
No doubt similar has happened before under other governments (of either major party), and will in the future. No doubt it is happening now. So what? We know the Indons spy on us - they've admitted it. Nations do that to one another, and accept that it happens. It's only when pond-scum like Snowden and his barrackers (particularly in the media) pick and choose what to release and, more importantly, when, that it becomes an issue.
jborgardt — 2014-02-17T14:06:06-05:00 — #14
Indignant? Really? Mate, it will only get worse from here.
The definition of Treason in the United States is as follows:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
In specific case; of the laws that apply too and from the Patriot Act: The use of this law by definition, is an act of treason to any citizen of the United States, according to the bill of rights.
If you want to go onto your hole and hide, so mote it be.
I will not.
teapot — 2014-02-17T17:52:00-05:00 — #15
Thanks for the definition.. I had real trouble understanding what treason was before you pasted it there, for you see I am incapable of operating a google and so just put forth opinions without even understanding the meaning of the words I'm using.
Which part of the definition do you feel is being engaged by the patriot act? The 'levying war against them' bit? I'm sure the Iraqis would happily swap their daily violence for a bit of patriot act, and then you might understand why comparing NSA actions to the horror of war is insulting to anyone who has actually been affected by it.
PS how the hell am I going to go onto a hole? Unless it's a really big hole like a meteor crater or something but there aren't any of those close by, so basically I'm with you man... I pledge that from this day forth I will also not go onto a hole.
dacree — 2014-02-18T11:54:35-05:00 — #16
Maybe I read this wrong, but it seems like the spying on the law firm was done by the Aussie spies and not the NSA. The NSA only sanctioned the spying. There seems to be no evidence of a breech of attorney client privilege by the NSA.
medievalist — 2014-02-18T12:22:16-05:00 — #17
Read the rest of it. If you can't find two people who personally witnessed the act of treason as it was committed, and who can prove that fact unequivocally in court, and who are willing to testify, you can't convict anyone of treason unless they themselves confess. How did you think Reagan got away with "giving... Aid and Comfort" to the self-declared enemies of the US? It was obviously treason, but he just said "I forget what happened" in court and no two eyewitnesses to the same overt act were willing to testify against him.
I've often been struck by how much this resembles Sharia laws concerning homosexuality. Apparently if two men live together in a one-room house with a single small bed, and are openly physically affectionate, that's totally OK in a strict Muslim country unless these men perform an actual forbidden sex act in front of two witnesses - who are then willing to testify about this in court. It's pretty much "lock the door during fun time and you're safe" for otherwise law-abiding citizens, even though homosexuality is technically quite illegal and harshly punishable.
doctorow — 2014-02-21T12:03:11-05:00 — #18
This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.