Quotes on religion and the mythical Christian solar god Jesus's association with the Sun

[nemomen]

@khepra

Seems those words always surface when African and African-American history and contributions to world history are espoused.

I said absolutely nothing about contributions, I referred to literally identifying as an ancient Greek/Roman/Egyptian.

@khepra

Historically in America students have always been taught about Greek, Roman and other European history and accomplishments. There has been a systematic whitewashing, trivializing and demeaning of the history and contributions of minorities in the American educational system.

While there’ve been tiny improvements on including Chinese and Indian contributions to history, most ancient cultures are ignored. I almost feel bad for the Phoenicians, massive contributions yet barely a footnote. There’s been a steady effort to correct this since the 60s, but the old racist Victorian picture of Greece/Rome being the origin of a white European culture isn’t fully corrected. Adding another false race-motivated picture of Egyptians being the real origin of a white European culture seems to be falling for the old mistake, not correcting anything. “White” is a fiction invented later that has nothing to do with the actual Greeks/Romans. Adding more fictions in education about race to other ancient cultures doesn’t fix anything, it reinforces and perpetuates the problem.

@khepra

The more we know about and respect our own ethnic history and the ethnic history of others, the better we are as a people. Why is there a St. Patrick’s Day, Columbus Day, Black History Month, Hispanic/Latino Heritage Month and multiple Jewish Holidays etc etc?

Cultures inevitably invent mythologies about their origins, though I don’t think this makes us better, it’s either neutral or bad. St. Patrick’s day arose from Irish Catholics being persecuted and trying to get acceptance, but wasn’t a big factor in fixing that problem. Now it’s another excuse to get drunk. Columbus day was the result of the Knights of Columbus pushing a racist and horrible holiday into existence. Modern American holidays don’t have anything to do with ancient Egyptians, though. There are Jewish holidays since Jews exist and have holidays. They aren’t national, though. Black History Month/Hispanic/Latino Heritage month are efforts to correct the historical wrongs in ignoring the contributions of non-whites, though, so those are good.

[TobinL]

[chgoliz]

@khepra

There are no other structures like “The Great Pyramid at Giza”

If you can, name another structure like “The Great Pyramid at Giza”

Pyramids in Latin America

Despite the towering reputation of Egypt’s Great Pyramids at Giza, the Americas actually contain more pyramid structures than the rest of the planet combined. Civilizations like the Olmec, Maya, Aztec and Inca all built pyramids to house their deities, as well as to bury their kings. In many of their great city-states, temple-pyramids formed the center of public life and were the site of much holy ritual, including human sacrifice. The best known Latin American pyramids include the Pyramid of the Sun and the Pyramid of the Moon at Teotihuacán in central Mexico, the Castillo at Chichén Itzá in the Yucatan, the Great Pyramid in the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan, the Pyramid at Cholula and the Inca’s great temple at Cuzco in Peru.

Further quote:

The base of the Pyramid of the Sun measures 730 feet per side, with five stepped terraces reaching a height of some 200 feet. Its massive size rivals that of the Great Pyramid of Khufu at Giza.

Oh, wait, you want HIGHER, right?

At Tikal in Guatemala, the tallest of the temple pyramids (Temple IV) is 230 feet tall, and several others are in the 180-190 feet tall range. The entire complex dwarfs the pyramids at Giza (and yes, I’ve been to both, so I’m not just quoting someone on the internet).

[daneel]

Did you see any X-Wings?

[cah]

@khepra

Radishes, garlic, onions, and silver are not relevant.

Herodotus is cited along with others regarding the casing stones. Other references to his observations are not relevant to the topic of the casing stones–which are also cited by others.

All well and good, except radishes, onions, and garlic are pretty much the entirety of his observations regarding the casing stones. Here, I’ll quote for you. This is from George Rawlinson’s translation, which I’m using as it’s fairly readable and you can find it on Wikisource:

There is an inscription in Egyptian characters on the pyramid which records the quantity of radishes, onions, and garlic consumed by the labourers who constructed it; and I perfectly well remember that the interpreter who read the writing to me said that the money expended in this way was 1600 talents of silver.

That’s it. That’s all he says about the inscriptions. Now, there is very good reason to doubt Herodotus on the subject of what precisely the inscriptions say. He had a habit of just repeating whatever he was told, and it’s easy to see a guide, asked a question he didn’t know the answer to, just making something up for the tourist or repeating something that someone else had made up.

This habit means that—razor for an ibex, and all that¹—he needs to be interpreted carefully. Particularly with regards to Egypt, where there are a very good arguments made that his claims of having travelled through it are complete fabrications. (Among other things: he thought that the Nile ran west-to-east through Libya.)

When his claims don’t seem too fabulous, have confirmation from other contemporary sources, or fit with more modern archaeological discoveries? Yeah, it’s probably safe to believe him. For instance: that single sentence on casing stone inscriptions comes in the middle of a long section on the construction of the pyramids. While there are clearly exaggerations in his description, they largely fit with what we know of ancient construction techniques.

When his claims start getting into the supernatural, such as your other references to the Histories?² At that point it’s safe to read him as an enjoyable fable, but not as any reliable source of historical fact.

1. And if anyone gets that reference then am I ever in the right place.
2. Or, more accurately, your references to other people selectively citing the Histories based on what they’d like to be true, as opposed to what is likely to be true.

[cah]

Goddammit! I know precisely where this is going to lead, and you had to bring this up when all my literature on the subject isn’t going to be accessible to me for several hours, at least.

[ChuckV]

@khepra

The next Cleopatra movie should have Halle Berry play the roll of Cleopatra.

My favorite Cleopatra was Lee Meriwether:

[chgoliz]

You could spend some of that time productively by explaining the razor to ibex reference, for those of us who would like to think we’re in the right place too but can’t seem to place the connection.

[cah]

It’s just a joke based on a fairly detailed demolishing of another famous but ultimately very poor historian: linky link.

Since an ibex is native to Egypt and part of the same family as the goat, and the same principles that Rose applied to Murray can be applied to Herodotus—the razor in question being that of William of Ockham—I simply couldn’t resist.

[chgoliz]

I am in the right place, then!!

(thanks!)

[enso]

@khepra

Seems those words always surface when African and African-American history and contributions to world history are espoused.

Ah, so you have a political agenda in all of this.

@khepra

Historically in America students have always been taught about Greek, Roman and other European history and accomplishments. There has been a systematic whitewashing, trivializing and demeaning of the history and contributions of minorities in the American educational system.

Ok. So there are a lot of Egyptians in the American educational system that are missing the achievements of their culture?

@khepra

Why is there a St. Patrick’s Day, Columbus Day, Black History Month, Hispanic/Latino Heritage Month and multiple Jewish Holidays etc etc?

Because we have large populations of American citizens with heritage of these sorts. There aren’t a lot of Egyptians here.

People do not buy into the Black Athena theories as being proven, nor that “Egyptian” civilization is really some pan-African and civilization for all people of African descent. You may personally buy into it but it is right up there with people that think their ancestors are from Atlantis.

Again, Egypt is not Wakanda.

[nemomen]

@khepra

The next Cleopatra movie should have Halle Berry play the roll of Cleopatra.

My favorite African model/actress would be perfect for the role:

[enso]

Doesn’t look very Greek to me.

[cah]

But it is easy to see how first Julius Caesar and then Marc Antony could fall for her.

[d_r]

Typical Norwegian pyramid:

[enso]

Aliens!

I didn’t know Africans had settled Norway.

[d_r]

@enso

I didn’t know Africans had settled Norway.

My understanding is that it is the other way around. As I mention upthread, the pyramids were built by Vikings. It is all detailed by Snorri Sturlson in his prologue to the Prose Edda.

[cah]

@enso

I didn’t know Africans had settled Norway.

Well, according to Herodotus and Diodorus Siculus,¹ the pharaoh Sesostris did wage a military campaign of conquest and colonization into Europe.

Neither claim he made it past Georgia though. Which makes sense: with peaches like that, why would anyone want to go further north?

1. Who makes Herodotus look like a paragon of well-researched historical accuracy.

[khepra]

You are citing examples of pyramids around the world, like it is a revelation, and has not been cited in this thread

You are not following my post replies.

I will post this again~

Second, the other pyramids around the world have similarities, but do not have the multiple amazing facts that are unique to “The Great Pyramid at Giza”

I will also post this again~

Finally, “The Great Pyramid at Giza” when viewed from the air during the fall and spring equinoxes–reveals 8 sides.

[anon63496581]

@khepra

I will post this again~

And again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and againand again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again