It’s never been about the babies. It’s about punishing women for having sex. Full stop.
17 Likes
OK, thanks. Time for me to flounce!
I think you’re missing @anon67050589’s point… it’s not an attack on families that adopt children (especially older children), it’s that many of the babies that are given up for adoption are done because the women who got pregnant were shamed into doing so. This is no way means that all adoptions are bad, but that if we had a system which supported families from the get go, that adoption would be much rarer a phenomenon. It also acknowledges that giving up a child for adoption, no matter what the circumstances, even when it’s the best choice for the child, is incredibly hard on the mother (and sometimes father) as well. Rarely have I seen this angle taken into consideration when there are discussions of adoption, as if it’s a clean solution that has no downsides. That just isn’t the case. Acknowledging that it’s a complicated situation often times doesn’t mean that adoptive families are bad. She said nothing about you or your particular situation.
14 Likes
But I got out my special flouncing outfit!
12 Likes
You really need an excuse to flounce? Have you learned NOTHING from @japhroaig and his flouncing ways?
15 Likes
2 Likes
I think you’re right. This is one area where the Patriarchy really lets us down.
3 Likes
Sitting here in a female body, I’m having a difficult time thinking of any area where Patriarchy doesn’t let everyone down.
18 Likes
Sitting here in a white male hetero American body, I can tell you that Patriarchy has its perks. I can slide through life like a greased pig as long as I don’t get sick or go to prison.
Here’s what puzzles me about abortion. A whole lot of life on this planet is focused on the pursuit of reproductive advantage. Maybe all of it? When an Alpha Male Lion takes over a new pride, he will often kill the previous Alpha’s cubs. By controlling the pride’s female reproductive ability, the new Alpha gains his own reproductive advantage by ensuring that his cubs won’t have to compete with the old Alpha’s cubs for scarce resources. Why then would Alpha Male humans want to do the opposite by banning abortion? I don’t doubt that it’s a thing, but I don’t understand what the payoff is supposed to be.
1 Like
The lion may not want other lions to have children, but he has a vested interest in the antelopes having as many children as they can.
11 Likes
[quote=“hungryjoe, post:69, topic:83940”]I don’t doubt that it’s a thing, but I don’t understand what the payoff is supposed to be
[/quote]
The “payoff” is in using the threat of involuntary pregnancy and forced birth as a punishment for women who do not submit their sexuality to his control. It has nothing to do with protecting the fetus/baby; that’s just a tool to control the woman.
The folks who oppose abortion also tend to oppose birth control. This is not a coincidence.
14 Likes
And I get rebuked for going OT?
Did I rebuke you? Was it here or elsewhere? I guess if it’s really bothersome, you are welcome to flag! 
You did not. @anon67050589 used my post above as an example of discussing adoptive parents as taking the emphasis away from the topic at hand, in a manner I felt was ungenerous so I just let it be rather than go further OT.
I tend to think of these boards as rolling conversations rather than post-reply-post interactions. I will be more cognizant of this in the future.
I apologize, my faux pas and I think etiquette would have been better served had I not replied directly to you, but rather quoted this post as an example. Again, no slight was intended.
ETA: I’m not a big fan of flagging unless something is clearly egregious.
4 Likes
Oh, no need to apologize. I’d hope you’d point it out to me, if you thought I was being ungenerous. But I didn’t take your comment as a slight, FWIW.
4 Likes
Sure, I get that. But to what end? Is it just control for the sake of control?
1 Like
Yes, I think so. Control for it’s own sake, to “keep women in their place” so they don’t get “uppity” and the man in question can feel powerful and superior to the woman.
8 Likes
11 Likes
Group selection. The functional outcome is to increase the number of soldiers fighting for your ideals, regardless of whether those ideals are the supremacy of the Catholic Church, or the dominance of patriarchal social orders. Behaviors that select for group survival (such as in-group altruism) are often at odds with behaviors that select for particular DNA, but paradoxically over time group selection gives better chance for DNA survival than kin selection.
2 Likes
