What’s the difference, when they don’t include many Christians in their vision of a “Christian Nation”? These two things have long been intertwined in America, even if that’s not always explicit.
And when has that been people who aren’t white Christians?
Wait- do courts in the US really do that? I thought that was a TV trope/myth and that there wasn’t actually a Bible involved in the swearing-in process.
That seems like a really obvious first amendment violation?
Yes, this was in secular (Godless) Manhattan; Raise your right hand and repeat,
“I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God–”, on a Bible.
the requisite boing:
and there’s also this:
Today it is well settled that the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution denies the government any authority to coerce a person into performing a religious act, including swearing oaths on a bible…
If you should find yourself in a position to “swear or affirm,” whether as a witness, as a jury member, or as a requirement of accepting government employment, let the official administering the oath know in advance that you wish to give an affirmation [ instead of an oath to god ]
unfortunately, my understanding is that swearing on the bible using the words “to god” is the default. likewise the us president isn’t required to swear to god on a bible, but i believe they always do.
A few exceptions:
Theodore Roosevelt did not use the Bible when taking the oath in 1901,[23] nor did John Quincy Adams, who swore on a book of law, with the intention that he was swearing on the constitution.[24] Lyndon B. Johnson was sworn in on a Roman Catholic missal on Air Force One.
The difference isn’t in desires, but the means they are likely to use to achieve those desires. Christian Identity groups have a history of things like firebombing individual houses and using things like bank robbery and drug dealing to do that. Both James Dobson and the residents of Elohim city might want my family not to exist or be dead, but they will use very different means to achieve that goal and need to be fought using different tactics.
It is largely white Christians, but not exclusively. To pick a high profile example Clarence Thomas would absolutely be a Christian Nationalist, but not even a little bit welcome in a Christian Identity movement.
It is, but they rationalize it by claiming that you can request other forms of affirmation. Even that as a possibility was stunningly late. https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1836&context=wmlr
I’ve always like the Adams approach. It gets the point of it across, while acknowledging that government is a very human activity.
I know that. But not every Christian is part of a “Christian identity” group. in fact the majority of them aren’t. I doubt we’d stand for an argument stating that “most Muslims are in favor of violence to enforce an Islamic society” when we very much know that’s not the case. Why do the same with regards to Christians. A major part of the problem is that we’ve allowed the far right to capture this language, and make it part of the culture wars, that “real” Christians are only them, and no one else. I say we don’t let them dictate terms here, because it’s very much incorrect.
I think they very much make excepts, at least now. But on individual does not represent a mass movement among Black Christians. Even the existence of a few extreme examples of Black Churches advocating for this does not exactly mean that it’s a “mass movement” among Black christians. Types like Thomas are even more a fringe than the white Christian identity movement.
I agree, which is why I was arguing that blurring Christian Nationalism with some of the other titles suggested upthread wouldn’t be helpful.
That part is strange to me. I’m not saying this is how it should be either, but in Europe, if you were admitting you were a religious Christian as a man, it would be seen by many as effeminate and unmanly.
OK, that is a very strange thing to read. Not sure why one’s religious inclination should play any role in “manliness” as such in any way. Cultures are weird.
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