A reminder from President Clinton

Pretty sure Obama promised it as well. Then he nominated an old-school VP and all was forgotten very quickly, IIRC.

Campaign reform in the US is a bit like helping the poor in Europe: everyone is for it, but somehow nobody actually ends up doing it before their term runs out.

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When all the hogs are eating out of the same delicious trough, it’s hard to get them to go on a diet.

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If you don’t like either of the 2 major party candidates, vote third party. If you don’t like anyone, don’t vote for them. You are not responsible for the actions of the political parties and they don’t need your vote. Not voting is not the same as voting for scary candidate X. That’s a fiction created by people who are fanboys of a particular party. If you choose to not vote out of a sense of decency, I’m with you.

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I know this sentiment exists, but I object to “Many” which makes it sound like it’s a predominant motivator. The predominant motivator for people who supported Sanders but won’t vote Clinton is thinking that Sanders would make a good president but thinking Clinton would make a bad one. We know there are plenty of arguable reasons for disliking Clinton that aren’t hateful or facetious.

I think being dismissive towards Bernie supporters is probably the #1 problem Clinton has in this election. If she’d address their concerns instead of telling them to stop talking them she’s be saying things that the majority of the people supporting her want to hear and that would motivate people to vote for her instead of grudgingly voting against Trump.

I keep saying it, but if you think that people are acting like toddlers, treat them like toddlers. Which one of these would I say to my toddler:

“[sad voice] Sorry honey, we’re out of juice… aww, I know you like juice. We’ll get some more juice at the store today, but we just don’t have any now. Do you want to read ‘But Not the Hippopotamus?’”

or

“Grow the FUCK UP, you idiot!”

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Of course, if Trump wins, then the question of “reform” is moot. I mean, he’s done none of the groundwork that any other contender would have done or that Hilary has done. Doesn’t make phone calls, doesn’t have a get out the vote apparatus, doesn’t really try to get the support of his party, hasn’t paid for massive ad campaigns and generally has gone completely against campaign orthodoxy… he doesn’t need to propose reform, he sort of embodies it.

I don’t know if I’d use “predominant” to describe it (I’d have said “most” in that case) but I’ve seen it come up enough on social media to know that it goes well beyond a handful of people.

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What about the vast swathe of progressives, Democrats, and independents? The poster you were responding to asked why she is unpopular with ‘Americans’.

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My take on this is to go and vote, but if (EDIT) any candidate in a given choice is so unpalatable, then leave that line blank. Move on to the next line which, who knows, may make more of a difference. You showed up to vote, and the ballot still gets counted.

It’s easy for me to say, as I live and vote in Maryland, which is pretty solidly blue in spite of our last gubernatorial election

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Sure, but then the reform you’re proposing is “be independently wealthy and you don’t have to take money from any special interests”-- so it’s just a variation on oligarchy, only the very, very wealthy can run for national office.

The GOP has been telling people she is dishonest for nearly 30 years. You don’t have to vote FoxNews to have been brainwashed by it.

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I don’t like Trump for a lot of reasons, and will not be voting for him. But the idea that he is a Hitler or will wreak Hitler-like destruction is pure paranoid fantasy.

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I’ve listened to as much of the DNC stuff as I could and most speeches, though not all. Out of curiosity, did you listen to the speeches at the convention last night? Clinton’s speech is today, so it’s hard to know what she’ll say, but there were a lot of nods, acknowledgements, and a general effort to reach out to the left in many of them, and in those speeches the focus was consistently on why to vote for Clinton rather than why Trump was a great threat. Some didn’t mention Trump at all.

Also, do you think the platform they adopted is a sign that they’re listening? The platform the party adopted is probably the most left-wing platform a Democratic party has produced in its history - $15 min. wage is in, abolishing the Death Penalty, legalizing weed, carbon tax, reforming the Fed, killing golden parachutes for lobbyists, Wall Street reforms, addressing police violence, and on and on. Sanders got a ton of material into it.

What do you think would be an actual thing Clinton could do (not, you know, a summary execution of Lloyd Blankfein on stage, but a real thing) that would be a thing you would notice that would show she’s listening?

Finally are you going to listen to the speech today? I ask because if you aren’t, you might not want to complain too much about not being listened to.

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I’m not a US voter. No one is going to listen to me. I don’t complain about not being listened to in Canada, either. I sometimes talk about the harm that not listening does, but they don’t hire me as their campaign managers, so it doesn’t really matter.

The convention has been, from what I’ve seen, largely about how great Clinton is. I thought Sanders’ speech (I just read the transcript but I can imagine the delivery) was really good at highlighting why Clinton is someone to support. I do have a lot of confidence she’ll support women’s rights, support children’s rights.

But generally when you want to get people on your side you can undo a massive amount of good with even just a little bad. I’d like her speech at the convention to contain a direct, empathetic appeal to Sanders supporters that thanks them for following their hearts, thanks them for helping to make the best, most progressive Democratic party platform in a decade, and tells them that if they vote for her, she will not let them down. The reason want to hear that isn’t because I’m a Sanders supporter and I care - I basically hate everyone with power in proportion to the power they possess and she’ll never overcome that. I want to hear that because I want her to beat Donald Trump, and right now I don’t think she’s going to.

I’m not hear complaining that my voice doesn’t matter, I’m hear pretending it does.

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Hey, she doesn’t listen to me, I’m surely not listening back. :wink:

Anyhoo, I’m not fussed by what she says. Believe a politician’s manifesto promises? Pfft. That’s for the birds. I liked Candidate Obama, too.

Clinton friend McAuliffe says Clinton will flip on TPP, then walks it back

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On the plus side if Clinton wins we’ll all have very low expectations and not be likely to suffer disappointment.

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Isn’t that a reason to vote Trump?

“Come on. It can’t possibly be as bad as you think it will be.”

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I disagree. I’m coming from the left and think she’s a neo-liberal - I’m not a fan, honestly. But I do think much of the right wing animosity towards her is related to her gender. I think that people can dislike her for her policy positions and it can still be true that there is a fair amount of misogyny thrown her way.

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