What would the book about her craft be crafted from? Kraft?
Yeah, I don’t get it. Like responding to Trump with paperwork is going to make a difference? Like he’d allow anything you do or say to be the last word. That couldn’t have been the reason, if only because I give Warren credit for being smarter than that.
Mostly this irks me because I think it only continues the trend of really bad assumptions about race and ethnicity in the American consciousness, but I don’t get too worked up about Warren. If a turkey sandwich ran against Trump at this point, I’d vote for it if my vote counted, and Warren is no exception. Actually what bothers me more are the people who seem super eager to defend Warren from criticism on this, it’s almost like Trump’s assishness towards her on the issue is supposed to be some kind of force-field.
According to Wikipedia, before the Civil War you were generally legally white if your ancestry was more than 3/4 or 7/8 white (depending on state). This was because southern whites knew damn well that most of them would be caught by a one-drop rule. This is from a letter to a Charlottesville newspaper in 1853, during a debate on whether Virginia should introduce such a rule:
[If a one-drop rule were adopted], I doubt not, if many who are reputed to be white, and are in fact so, do not in a very short time find themselves instead of being elevated, reduced by the judgment of a court of competent jurisdiction, to the level of a free negro.
And later, a delegate to South Carolina’s 1895 constitutional convention said this:
If the law is made as it now stands respectable families in Aiken, Barnwell, Colleton, and Orangeburg will be denied the right to intermarry among people with whom they are now associated and identified. At least one hundred families would be affected to my knowledge. They have sent good soldiers to the Confederate Army, and are now landowners and taxpayers. Those men served creditably, and it would be unjust and disgraceful to embarrass them in this way. It is a scientific fact that there is not one full-blooded Caucasian on the floor of this convention. Every member has in him a certain mixture of … colored blood.
[Emphasis added.]
By the 1920s memories had faded (or been deliberately suppressed), and the one-drop rule was introduced.
I agree. The test results say that at best she had a Native great great great great great grandparent. This is like telling your folks you’ve done “a little” of your homework when all you’ve done is write your name on the paper. Technically true, basically false.
I’m not at all saying I think she intentionally made false statements. Just that I think it’s really weird that she’s trumpeting these results like they’re some kind of vindication. I LOVE Elizabeth Warren but I think she was myopically insensitive on this.
If you re-read the post, it makes reference to the period of time prior to her Harvard appointment. She’s made no denial of knowing about the Directory listing, only Harvard’s promoting of her.
Really, Auld, you need to read more closely. Facts are hard.
These regs are for certification as a Disadvantaged Business Entity for USDOT funded projects. So - no you very likely can’t. I’d deny your application from what you’re presenting here.
edit: But claiming "minority status"as a member of a community in a government program or for private benefit isn’t the same as claiming some heritage.
IN WHAT WOULD be her final year at the University of Texas, Warren made a decision that would come to haunt her: She listed herself in the Association of American Law Schools annual directory as a minority law professor.
The organization debuted its list of minority law professors in the 1986-1987 edition, and Warren’s name appears in bold on page 1055 of the volume. It was listed the same way in each of the next eight editions.
I think this is a strategic decision to rip off the band-aid. By throwing all this out here now, by the time focus turns to the 2020 election, this will all be “old news”.
Even just proclaiming her ancestry WITHOUT FIRST CHECKING IN WITH ANYONE at Cherokee Nation is pretty damn insensitive at best, and sure, it’s not the exact same brand as racism we get out of Trump, but it’s this attitude of white Europeans that they can take anything they want and do with it as they please – now look, if she had just said “this something my family told me, I dunno if there’s something to it” that’s one thing, but she had to have told Harvard and other employees of her ancestral claims for them to eventually list her as a “minority” in their documents. And remember, this happened during a climate where there was a lot more conversation around affirmative action than there is even today. She knew what she was doing.
But worse, she frequently played off her ancestral claims without actually engaging the Cherokee Nation, seemingly at all – I’m not Indigenous (at least not that I know of), and even I know that they don’t use DNA as a measure of ancestry or indicator of community membership.
And then to trot this out and act as if Trump should cut a check – he clearly she should prove that she is Indian, not 1/1024 or 1/64, or anything like that…
I’m not saying that Trump hasn’t been slimy as hell throughout all this, but why is it that she so cynically felt entitled to play up her ancestry?
I really think that if we want to deal with Trump, we need radically honest politicians – who where their faults out in the open, and who give up this game of stacking lies on top of lies to defeat other liars.
I doubt that it will ever happen, but my hope is that we can somehow get this to become a meme.
But all Warren showed here is exactly how to play into Trump’s (grimy, little) hands.
If I answer the question, is that going to be the end of it?
YESThe user who first put the words "claiming minority status" together in a post here is the same one who was asking questions about what it "equates to." Since he typed the words, one might imagine he already knew what he meant by them.NOI don't really care whether he made the phrase up himself or if he was quoting it from somewhere else, nor do I believe you had any trouble understanding what I meant the first time. You both seem to be here to insinuate that Liz Warren benefited from affirmative action and "took a minority position," as if there are reserved seats for people of color at Harvard.
Or is this just an excuse to post a wall of text about how wrong I am about things?
Having an indigenous great6 grandparent must be extremely common among non-indigenous North Americans with a couple of centuries of settler roots. I probably have at least one such ancestor (my first known European ancestor on the continent came to New France almost 400 years ago), but even if I could prove it I wouldn’t dream of identifying myself as indigenous.
Warren’s “family lore” has a place at dinner parties and family reunions, but I don’t see any place for it on official paperwork or in politics. She may not have been the one to introduce it to the political arena, but she did so indirectly by listing it on paperwork.
A small error in judgment – but why?? – that has become a large error in judgment, on which she’s doubled down by claiming that proving a ~6 generation link makes her the winner of Donald Trump’s stupid bet that nobody sensible would expect him to honour. Technically she’s right, but does she seriously not realize that it’s a no-win game and nothing good can come of it?
You’re right. In my mind, reporting oneself to a directory as being a minority does equate to claiming minority status. My question was posed because I recognize that this community is composed of people with varied world views, and if someone thinks differently about that questions, I’m interested in hearing the reasoning. If you care to review my posts, at no place do I contend that Warren received any benefit from claiming minority status, nor do I insinuate it.
The majority of what I posted is in response to those who would assert that Warren never claimed to be a minority. Despite arguments to the contrary, there seems to be evidence that she indeed did make such claims.
Without making claims about Warren’s motives or any accrued benefits, I’m simply trying to point out that 1) She’s made claims of Native American heritage
2) She’s claimed minority status based on heretofore unsubstantiated lore
3) The publicized test seems to indicate that she’s of no more NA heritage than the average American who identifies as white.
If you parse the LA Times article on Kevin McCarthy’s inlaws, you’ll run into the same issues-- but, they’re spelled out more clearly.
Wages says he is one-eighth Cherokee. An examination of government and tribal records by The Times and a leading Cherokee genealogist casts doubt on that claim, however. He is a member of a group called the Northern Cherokee Nation, which has no federal or state recognition as a legitimate tribe. It is considered a fraud by leaders of tribes that have federal recognition.
That leading Cherokee Genealogist is David Cornsilk (It’s very nice to have names) . He’s also been critical of Elizabeth Warren.
and in the Boston Globe:
“The problem with Elizabeth Warren is she is not the average wannabe,” said David Cornsilk, a Cherokee historian and genealogist. “She is an academic. She has a higher level of aptitude to examine these issues. And a higher responsibility to examine them, and accept the research that is done, or to counter it with alternative research.”
Cornsilk described himself as a liberal who supports Warren’s agenda of attacking income inequality. “Warren could be an ally,” Cornsilk said. “But she will not be an ally that we will accept if she continues to claim Cherokee and Delaware heritage without proof.”
there’s also these parallels between the two stories…
After learning The Times was pursuing this story, Wages said he considered having his DNA tested to prove his Cherokee heritage. He said he opted not to because the tests are unreliable for Native Americans.
…
In a telephone interview, the group’s chief, Kenn “Grey Elk” Descombes acknowledged that neither the federal government nor Missouri legally recognizes his organization as a tribe. But he said its members should qualify for minority contracting work.
Descombes, who works in trucking, said the group verifies a person’s Cherokee lineage through a process that is 90% based on family stories. He said the federally recognized Cherokee tribes unfairly criticize his group because they don’t want competition for minority set-aside contracts and other government benefits.
Still, the Wages story comes with allegations of concrete injury-- while Warren’s foes can point to nothing more than abstractions and insinuations.
This was what David Cornsilk saw as a little boy, and it made an impression on him. He grew up in the countryside surrounded by full-blood Cherokees and feeling their particular prejudice against white people (and against blacks and half-breeds). His white mother, who was more or less rescued by his father from an abusive relationship with a white man, had decided to live as a Cherokee. “Her family are backwoods folks from Arkansas. We were not accepted into her family because we were half-breed Indians. So we were treated differently by them. I’m sure if we had been half-breed blacks they would have never even accepted that we existed. So my prejudices come from that side. It took me a long time to even—I’d never been around black people other than just the few who live up there and one or two other kids who’d come to my school.” “Up there” refers to a hill overlooking Tahlequah. a place local whites and Cherokees call Nigger Hill. The black people who live up there today are still collectively known as “the freedmen” and are descendants of slaves brought west by their Cherokee owners from the tribal homelands in North Carolina, Georgia, northern Alabama, Tennessee, and parts of other states. Most of these ancestors came during the forced removal in the 1830s along what was called the Trail of Tears.
