After her spies told Thatcher they thought an MP was raping children, she knighted him

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Yes, this stuff is well documented at this point. There is apparently some evidence that pedophile rings may have killed young boys after raping them. Sometimes I speculate to myself about the whys of this kind of thing. I can only assume that having a set of definite Parliamentary votes in your pocket was valuable for the people who ran the UK.

Greville Janner is another name that comes up in these issues.


I can easily see Thatcher knighting someone she had dirt on as a part of a carrot-and-stick game of ownership over an MP’s votes or willingness to challenge the party leadership (as portrayed in the original “House of Cards”). Conservative parties that constantly wring their hands about poor people not taking “personal responsibility” have very different standards for their donors and their more useful underlings.

[ETA: he was not a Tory]



There are god knows how many eye witness accounts, all of which have been dismissed as the hysterical rantings of the “unreliable”. Reading these stories will bring a tear to the eye of anyone. For some reason I have never had any problem considering these stories plausible - maybe its just evidence of my own cynicism. But as one reads through the literature its amazing to see how much was brushed under the carpet REPEATEDLY until the alleged perpetrators were very old, and then dismissed because said alleged perpetrators were too old to remember. Im not talking about the odd allegation - Im talking about dozens of mutually consistent stories from men who were once in children’s homes. So much so that Bill Cosby comes to mind. Perhaps someone should write a horror script set in a children’s home of the era to highlight the problem.


This is going to sound odd but i was thinking about this crap today (someone before class said something that reminded me about Kate & William scandal in Vegas [them walking around nude] and into how people with power think they can get away with this type of crap) (so basically. . .) wasn’t there an English Duke of somwhere charged with raping teen girls in the U.S. , and then i think the sentencing was bullshit


Call it “The Missing Stair.”

Really, this attitude extends beyond child abuse to standard-issue rape. Cosby’s predation was an open secret in the comedy industry for a long time, and I remember Harvey Weinstein’s casting couch behaviour being discussed eight years ago in regard to a certain up-and-coming “It Girl” actor who never quite made it and his newest target. And yet Cosby and Weinstein continued to be respected because, like this scumbag MP, they were simply useful enough to the industry or corporation or institution.


Ignorant American here with a slightly off topic question - I wasn’t aware anyone but the queen could grant knighthoods?


I believe that you’re correct, but seems the PM has a big say in some cases. From Teh Wiki:

New Year and Birthday Honours
A list of approximately 1,350 names is published twice a year, at the New Year and on the date of the Sovereign’s (official) birthday. Since their decisions are inevitably subjective, the twice-yearly honours lists often provoke criticism from those who feel strongly about particular cases.[4][5] Candidates are identified by public or private bodies, by government departments, or are nominated by members of the public. Depending on their roles, those people selected by the honours committee are submitted either to the Prime Minister, Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, or Secretary of State for Defence for their approval before being sent to the Sovereign for final approval. Certain honours are conferred solely at the Sovereign’s discretion, such as appointments to the Order of the Garter,[6] the Order of the Thistle, the Royal Victorian Order,[7] and the Order of Merit.[8] The honour’s insignias are then presented by the Sovereign or her designated representative. The Prince of Wales, the Duke of Cambridge[9] and the Princess Royal have deputised for the Queen at investiture ceremonies at Buckingham Palace.

Prime Minister’s Resignation Honours
By convention, a departing prime minister is allowed to nominate Prime Minister’s Resignation Honours, to reward political and personal service. In recent history, only Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have not taken up this privilege (although Brown did issue the 2010 Dissolution Honours to similar effect).


The Queen gets a list from the PM of the day. Same for all the other honors. Worth noting that the leader of the oppo also gets to submit a list of proposals too to the PM.


@gracchus @Nobby_Stiles Thanks to both!


During the Bush Sr. administration there were many tales of White House paedophile parties that were dismissed by the media, but very popular in and around D.C… During the Bush Jr. administration similar rumors circulated about gay prostitutes frequently spending the night at the White House with senior officials.

Not claiming any of the above has any validity, just saying I heard these things on the street in Washington, D.C. in the context of “oh, of course, everyone knows this is going on”. But today as I hear these tales from Britain and Hollywood, I keep hearing the same sort of thing - “oh, it was an open secret, everyone knew…”


The problem is that these are also useful tales to slander your opponents with, so it will be more difficult going forward to tell the mass of legitimate stories from the mass of propaganda (a la pizzagate) that gets perpetuated by an opposition.


I’m not a UK citizen, but was Jimmy Saville really a “beloved cultural figure?” He seemed creepy as fuck to me, even prior to any revelations about how creepy as fuck he was.

He seems more like “was a beloved cultural figure at one point, but went on about 40 years too long.”


I know this is a terrible thing to say, but the lesson I took from Jimmy Saville is that if someone looks like a creepy pedophile then shockingly, there is a chance that he is a creepy pedophile. Indeed I have promised myself to never let my kids be around people who dress inappropriately and creepily young. Of course this kind of over-generalizing has no place in civilized thinking. Except, well, you know.


I heard the same rumours. Not the mention the rumours about the San Francisco madam who killed herself (apparently) and her big book of Washington clients. Dick (no pun intended) Cheney’s name often came up.


By way of contrast, inside-the-beltway rumors about Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were that they were secretly sneaking out for cheeseburgers and cigarettes (respectively). And the rumor about Reagan was that he was so senile he’d actually fall asleep during descriptions of White House orchestrated atrocities in South America. briefings.

But as @carlmud pointed out, there’s no way for us voters to know what really goes on in the heavily guarded compounds we pay for, so there’s also no way for us to tell politically motivated slander from real insider information.


Never heard that with either Bush, but I might have been too young to hear such rumors/not informed enough. They did the same thing with the Pizza Gate and Hillary. And Obama was accused of hiring gay prostitutes. I am inclined to believe in most cases this is all just mud slinging rumors. I mean, if Clinton couldn’t keep a BJ secret, what are the chances gay prostitutes or others would keep quiet?

I also hear things about Hollywood, but I am more inclined to believe them because there have been cases of that sot of thing coming out. Though again I don’t think its quite the Caligula type hedonism some claim.


Sometimes I nearly give in to despair.

What is it about powerful people, powerful men in particular (but not uniquely), that so often ends with this sort of narrative? They are “great men” but often awful human beings.

And when they were born into power and privilege, the tendency is even more exaggerated.

It makes the great man who turns out to have also been a decent person seem to be vanishingly rare.


This is a big part of the delusion. I can’t think of many, if any, political figures on either side of the pond that should even remotely be considered “great”. Great at forcing their party agenda, maybe, but otherwise I wouldn’t even want to endure a lunch meeting with any of them.