When a Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia states that regional courts rulings will be of a higher range than the national Supreme Court, how could a countries Constitutional Court not rule out such article?
I can kind of upside world can a regional court overrule a national court. Can anyone image Supreme Court of Texas rulings being US Supreme Court rulings? One cannot write a nonsensical article and expect the rule of law to juts say yes.
The Constitutional Court frequently rules against the Government, which proves it is not dependent from it, and includes Catalan judges.
Speaking of post-truth, it is probably a good time to stop unfairly associating Spain with the Inquisition. Spain did not create this; it only had a share. And yes, there was Inquisition in Catalonia too
And non-Catholic Inquisitions existed too. Spanish Miguel Servet, who discovered the lower blood circulation, was burnt at the stake by Calvin in 1553
Well, somebody flagged my comment so it’s hidden and my user banned from posting replies. I created this new user. Thanks for comment asking about it. I ignore if it was a spaniard guy who flagged it, but in Catalonia we are used to the attitude “I’m right and you’re wrong. Shut up”.
Right now, Spanish politicians and media against Catalonia independence (90% of total) are astonished and confused about the general international reaction regarding the catalan referendum (neutral about independence, but pro referendum). They simply don’t understand that to let people vote and decide their own future is the most basic principle of any civilized country.
I’m curious if general Catalonian separatist sentiment is averse to or supportive of joining NATO and remaining on the Euro (thus being subject to European central bankers)
It’s very supportive of remaining in Europe (rejoining asap), and therefore keeping the Euro. Actually, the slogan of one of these massive demostrations during national day, in 2012, was: “Catalonia, new state in Europe”. That has been a constant threat from spanish authorities: “if you leave Spain, you’re going to be expelled from Europe!”.
Regarding NATO, I honestly don’t know. It hasn’t been a clear issue. The only I can say is that, in general, the catalan society is pacifist. Some of the largest protest worldwide against Iraq war were held in Barcelona. Right now there is no such thing as a catalan army, just police. Therefore there won’t be any war against Spain. Everybody calm down. Besides, catalan people are too smart to fight in a war . Who would start a war in XXIth Europe?
Regarding Putin, I don’t see any relation with what’s happening in Catalonia. I guess he is against any secessionist movement (Chechnya, Montenegro, Georgia…). But I can say something about eventual Spain-Russian ties: last year several NATO allies got angry with Spain because it was assisting russian ships on their way to bomb Syria (a NATO member assisting Russia’s army? That was weird).
No, the Spanish Inquisition was only ONE of the Inquisitions. You seem to enjoy equating “Inquisition” to “Spanish Inquisition”, which seems seems pretty xenophobic to me. Old times were cruel, Spain did not have the monopoly of cruelty.
According to Wikipedia, Spanish inquisition “became the most substantive of the three different manifestations of the wider Catholic Inquisition”. I don’t enjoy it, I think it is an uninteresting issue actually. I ignore why you accused whoever posted the epic Monty Python meme of “speaking post-truth”. I didn’t know there was such thing as a “Spanish Inquisition negationism”. Indeed, Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition Negationism.
“Xenophobic” for me would be to use arguments like “[the Spanish Constitutional Court] includes Catalan judges” or “there was Inquisition in Catalonia too”. I don’t know what are you trying to prove with that reasoning. Are you the one who accused the catalan independence movement of being racist?
Catalan nationalism origins can the traced back to the late 19th century. It’s rooted in racism (the “Catalan race” would be Ario-Goth-Celtic as opposed to the rest the Spain’s Semitic and Bereber
70% of catalans are born out of Catalonia or have one of their parents born outside of Catalonia. This is what we talk about when we talk about “catalans”. These are the same ones who are now asking to vote in a referendum. Anybody can come to Catalonia to live and then he/she will be able to vote and participate in society’s decisions. But don’t pretend that people who lives 1.000 km from Catalonia are going to decide about whether is better for Catalonia to become independent or not.
Thanks again. I know that the mods were trying to restore your improperly flagged posts, but they ran into a technical glitch.
I asked about NATO not because I’m worried about a war against Spain but because I’m genuinely curious about the Catalan (and the Spanish) attitude toward participating in a defence treaty which has both positive and negative aspects for its signatories. There are those who’d like to see wars in 21st century Europe, which brings us to…
… Putin, who is against any secessionist movement in what he considers Russia’s sphere of influence but is for any such movement in the West (understandably so, because it distracts from his own expansionist adventures). He’s certainly not going to try to invade himself, but if he can support the more unpleasant sort of separatist movements that would work in his favour.
It’s not all that weird that a NATO member state might assist Russia in the case of Syria. The Russians were on their way to fight their client Assad’s enemies, some of whom are also NATO’s enemies. The Middle East has been a place for strange and temporary bedfellows for millennia now.
On the other hand, it’s never a bad time for someone to take the opportunity of posting a Monty Python clip, even if thin-skinned humourless people think the absurdist humour is a calculated attack on their nationality. Put another way:
It’s reasonable to question whether there are xenophobe elements, or even roots, to a separatist movement, but it can’t be used as an excuse to dismiss them across the board. If you did, you could just as well claim that any wish for greater unity and integration between regions is fundamentally imperialist.
It is not a threat. The EU is a legal framwork bewteen otherwise sovereign national states, with the option of any states saying “screw this, we want out“. How the member nations organize themselves is their business.
There are simply no provisions for nation states to enter mitosis with both cells remaining member nantions
So yes, if Catalonia leaves Spain, it will automatically be a foreign country like any other outside the EU. And the process of joining requires unanimous assent by all member nations. Inlcuding Spain.
About Putin: He’s against any secessionist movement away from the Russian federation. He was perfectly willing to help Crimea to secede and enter the federation. And there’s still the matter of Easten Georgia.
He’ll be fine with Catalonia seceding, because he can’t lose unless Madrid and Barcelona get their act togther and compromise. If Catalonia secedes, the EU will be weakened. If it wants to seceed but isn’t allowed too, he’ll point to Crimiea. Or East Georgia, depending on the outcome.
Britain currently wants Scotland to be independent. Scotland has basically taken the attitude of, “Suck it up; next time, think before you conquer!” xD.
@EficaciaRealYa: Show me a legal secession or revolution in history -.-’ . The American Revolution was, in fact, completely illegal, according to England at the time.
I did not negate Spanish Inquisition (3-5k deaths area common consensus). Just the fairness of bringing up the old cliché.
It is interesting that a person used the term “substantive” in the Wikipedia entry, even though the claim is not susbtantiated in the article (say, with a compared death toll).
Which makes sense, as it just seems it left a much better paper trail. French historian Marcel Bataillon stated that “Spanish repression was less distinguished by its cruelty than by the power of the bureaucratic, police and judicial apparatus at his disposal”. Thus, what differentiated the religious intolerance of the territories of the Spanish Crown from other countries is that the Catholic Monarchs institutionalized this repression through the Holy Office, which, although it caused less bloodshed, left the detailed information of each execution recorded. The English, French and Dutch propaganda was responsible for exaggerating something that the “Protestant inquisitions” carried out with even more violence and in less time.
Edward Peters, a prominent historian in the field, writes, “An image of Spain circulated through late 16th-century Europe, borne by means of political and religious propaganda that blackened the characters of Spaniards and their ruler to such an extent that Spain became the symbol of all forces of repression, brutality, religious and political intolerance, and intellectual and artistic backwardness for the next four centuries.”
Inquisition started in the 12th century in France to fight religious sectarianism such Cathars and Waldensians. Spain would not even have an Inquisition until three centuries later (1478).
Huguenot Wars alone are estimated to have caused 3 million deaths. The total number of executions for witchcraft ranges from 40,000-60,000. 219 just in the Würzburg witch trial.
So, yes, bringing up the Spanish Inquisition cliche seems like a very unfair thing to do.
The people in the area are already aware of the uncertainties involved, both economic and more generally social. And…? They’re asking the question, anyway.Not sure how a right regions
No they are not, like a lot of people that voted for Brexit. Automatic EU membership has been assured and highly unrealistic numbers for fiscal number are thrown (though they did not print them on a double-decker bus, but they have several TV and radio stations to care for that). Local parliament president even stated that “Grandmas would not have to babysit their grandchildren any more” in that hypothetical Catalonia.
is fascist/autocratic BS like Spain
Abiding by the law and the Constitutional Court is being fascist?
it’s not like they don’t have local precedent for exactly that!
The civil war had nothing to with regional disputes
Thats interesting. One might think that the ruling class in the West is against secessionist movements in its own empire, but pro them in the Russian Federation because it weakens it as a body politic which could oppose their own colonialist and imperial plans.
I suppose one could view the issue symmetrically if one chose to.
. Who would start a war in XXIth Europe?
