I’m in the impression, at least on my part of the planet, that skinheads have largely cleansed themselves of fascist ties, nowadays. The fascist deviation has a specific name now, “bonehead”.
Edit: and I should read more of a thread before posting redundant answers like this.
Perhaps a field trip for the students who emulated Nazi salutes to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC is in order. They have some of the more disturbing photographs deliberately out of the way so people can decide whether to view them or not. I suggest these students see some of the milder ones, then be asked “Do you want to see the worst things these people did? Do you want to see what you did can eventually lead to?”
I wouldn’t restrict this to a specific group. Visiting the KZ Dachau memorial/museum as pupil was eye-opening and formative.
Maybe it would be good. I don’t know. Some people find the DC museum traumatic.
this is more or less the whole point and included in my blanket term “eye opening”. people can only learn from history when they know about it
I wonder if the trauma is inflicted by the museum, or the reality of history.
I agree. But there’s reading about it, and talking about it, and seeing a picture every now and then, and then there’s being faced with an enormous number of very graphic images (and whatever else is in the museum; I haven’t been). Knowing about it through reading and the few pictures I’ve shied away from in the past is plenty for me. If I went in there, I would be traumatized and have nightmares. I don’t know if it would be wise to have every kid go there. But perhaps the ones doing the salutes could learn something.
From what I’ve read, the museum is extremely well done, presenting the material in a sensitive, thought-provoking way. As I said, the more graphic material is deliberately out of the way, so you can choose to look at it or not. That’s all I know about it.
Interestingly, AFAIK no member of the NSDAP would have called himself a Nazi. It was originally shortened to that as an insult by anti-Nazi campaigners, as “Nazi” was a common nickname for someone called Ignaz but one with connotations of being clumsy or foolish.
Of course, this also means that the words Nazi and nachos are cognates…
what age group do you mean with “kids”?
Nazi Germany is here a major topic in the history classes of the 9th/10th grade, so somewhere around 15, 16 years old - if possible supported by museum visits and conversations with contemporary witnesses (this was still common in the mid-90s, the current generation will not have the chance to meet a survivor), our Dachau visit was part of a school trip to Munich in the 9th grade.
at that age the kids are imo much tougher than helicopter parenting wants to make believe, protecting them from the “evil world out there” is not kind but derogative, as if they are not able to form own opinions.
(sorry for the rant, my mood is, uh, suboptimal)
Fuck this idea sideways, by the way.
Are they emulating their parents? Do their parents know? Interesting questions. I don’t know but I suspect if you expel the bad actors, the parent(s) will find out.
Totally agree, which is why I think this is the wrong attitude to take:
she calmly and rationally explained to a kid in the hallway just last week what “Sieg Heil” means, and reduced him to shame-filled tears. I am proud of her for speaking out.
What my daughter didn’t do was tell someone in authority who has the power to stop this hateful nonsense.
She did exactly the right thing, which was to treat the Seig Heil as a social mis-step, a despicable thing which will get you condemned and ridiculed by your peers. Not a rebellious defiance of the arbitrary adult rules which kids instinctively resent. Give kids the tools to handle these things amongst themselves, rather than expecting them to run to an adult to fix things.
Another thought about “tolerance”.
The way I see it, I try to be tolerant of everything except intolerance.
This allows a wide variety of views to be tolerated. To step back to something little less close to home as Nazis or ISIS, let’s look at the generic “Catholic vs Protestant”. Most of the time one can listen to the various factions and agree to disagree and have a rousing debate. Where it becomes unacceptable and tolerance becomes impossible is when when the views become intolerant of others and even starts committing violence on the other. This has happened at various times in history, such as in Ireland (though there were other issues contributing to the violence as well.)
This is why one can be tolerant of Islam in general, but not things like ISIS. Tolerant of Protestants in general, but not the Westboro Baptists Church. Tolerant of white people, but not those who feel they are the “master race” and want to actively kill or expel others (ie Nazis).
So being tolerant in general doesn’t mean one is tolerant of EVERYTHING.
I have been. It is wise for every kid to go there. It is both heartrending and uplifting, one of the better memorials that we have ever created.
[quote=“FFabian, post:109, topic:96217”]It’s a school, they have all the tools available which are needed to stop this.
Show them what the Nazis did. We have pictures and films. Show them the whole gruesome reality of the Holocaust.[/quote]
When I was in elementary school in the USA in the 1960s, they showed us the films. I remember the bulldozers pushing through the emaciated bodies, dead arms flying upwards spasmodically, even now. I remember more children crying during those films than when we were lined up for forcible vaccination, too.
Our parents strongly approved, which is the difference between now and then.
Oh, I was speaking in a very vague way. I have no special knowledge of raising or teaching kids, not having had any. I was reacting to the disgusting things going on in the US – synagogue threats, vandalism, and now salutes in school.
That is so good to know.
It’s was still state socialism.
Not really
