More like, “That’s exactly the opposite of ‘triage’.”
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The Swiss have thought this through. It is not perfect, but it is far better than Alabama’s version.
smw_2020_20229.pdf (467.1 KB)
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Such people appear not to contemplate the notion that it they live long enough, they too will be on the short end of the stick.
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This whole thing seems out of a Faulkner novel.
You’re hitting on the thing I dread telling all my friends… that in these isolated wards going after a pandemic, they aren’t gonna have a lot of time to make or help you make choices, it’s going to sound quite literally like every patient is being waterboarded, and at the most you may get SOME choices among sounding and feeling like that, being on morphine until you forget which way is up, or accepting the tube down your throat that, even done properly by the best tech/nurse on staff, may scratch or scar you.
The one saving grace for the care crew, perhaps, will be that in this pandemic/isolation mode, relatives can’t be in there second guessing everything you do.
L.A. County DHS are apparently rejecting donations of 3D printer ventilator parts. I just learned this by clicking on “Donations” on their coronavirus site.
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If you can, thank her for me. My daughter spent 42 days in a NICU. She’s 5 now and an absolute delight.
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L’etat, c’est moi.
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The answer is no one should be put in the situation of being forced to chose based on either of those facts.
Its possible to have triage guidelines that have no assessment of age, chronic illness, disability, or quality of life in the long term.
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But we will be put in that position, because the overarching instinct for administrators, from upper levels of government to local hospitals, is to avoid taking responsibility. The triage responsibilities will fall to the staff at bedside, and when this is all over I predict huge amounts of Monday morning quarterbacking, and even potential legal and financial liability for doctors and nurses who had no choice but to make the choices others refused to. It will be another case where the only choices open to us are either dead heros or live criminals.
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That is short, sweet and well thought tnrough. And terrifying. According to Darius, no battle plan survives contact with the enemy, and i am certain that will apply here as well, but at least they have a plan to start with. Puts them lightyears ahead of us.
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Can someone familiar with US law please tell me how this is even possible? In Germany, this would mean a massive constitutional crisis.
In reply to @orenwolf, I posted German news regarding the triage situation. @FGD135 provided additional links and a summary.
I would urge everyone in this topic to go there and read what they summarised, AND continues to update!
FTR: I read the statement by the national ethics commission yesterday, and it explicitly explains the implications on the rule of law in regard to a constitutional crisis if the state would be involved in the decision of a triage. (NB: Singular chosen on purpose, since a single case would be enough to trigger a massive legal and constitutional problem.)
And yes, @anon61221983, you are absolutely right. This is fascist. It needs to be stopped under all circumstances. This is something a state must not decide.
(Further thoughts, which might distract but I want to vent.)
Germans have done this during the Nazi time, as @beschizza already mentioned. The allies in WW II put a stop to it. The Nuremberg trials were an important step to realise where it leads when the state decides who lives and who dies. The US guaranteed they were fair and public. I can’t see anyone doing this in the future we are apparently heading for.
Someone, I think @DukeTrout, called for something like the Nuremberg trials against the Trump admin because of decisions which made the pandemic worse in the US. I argued, and argue still, that the steps so far are in the realm of politics which takes into account many variables, and different scientific, legal and economic advice which might be contradictory. No one has had the “right” decisions. There still is no data on many variables considering the epidemiology of the pandemic, so I was and I am warning against “blaming” the Trump or any other admin for the direct effects of rising infections due to post-fact wrong decisions.
But this is different. If the report is factual and complete, and I am not misunderstanding something because of my limited knowledge of the legal and ethical background of the policy roughly outlined in the
ProPublica piece.
I am still a bit careful here. I see no links to the states disasters preparedness plans. I also do not know how those would be implemented, what status in law they would have etc. Most of the piece gives a “human perspective”, as we would have called this in journalists schools back when I aspired to be a science journo. But if correct, then this must be stopped. This is evil.
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I am curious to find out if they aren’t actually hammered out. It seems to me every large medical institute, such as a hospital, should have triage guidelines for pandemics and catastrophe. Such as an earthquake, tornado, hurricane, terrorist attack, etc.
I am going to reach out to at least one of the people I know in the field, such as the heart nurse, and ask if they have such guidelines where they work, and if so, does mental ability play a factor?
I absolutely agree that this should not be in the hands of politicians, but professionals in the field of healthcare. But that begs the question, if there are situations where the politician’s and professionals happen to agree, is that a “right” decision? Or maybe just a “least worst”?
I feel that this crisis is going to have a lot of examples where the decisions will be second guessed and maybe regretted and those harmed by the guidelines/decisions will have some righteous anger.
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Here’s the difference: if the bad decisions (and they are clearly bad decisions, regardless of the lack of demonstrated “perfect” decisions) were due to simple incompetence, then you’d be right. There should be repercussions, but they could reasonably be limited to political ones. However, we have multiple sources of documentation that show that the bad decisions of the Trump administration were due to self-interest, and made despite specific knowledge that they were the wrong decisions and a pretty good idea of the cost in lives.
That’s the very definition of criminal behavior and must be treated as such, or it sends a clear message that it’s OK to kill people as long as you’re wealthy and powerful.
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That’s, uh, pretty much the way of the world. Especially the US. 
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More on Alabama’s approach to the pandemic and how it will impact the the black community:
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The American Civil War
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No, it’s not. Not if you leave in the context of 1. Documented self-interest and 2. Knowing the likely outcome. Even for the powerful, that combination of 3 things almost always leads to criminal charges.
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Roger That!
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