In spite your repeated claims to the contrary.
Sure - with consent. I doubt they like it without consent, as thatâs assault and rape. Deen has been accused of abuse and rape, not of participating in consensual rough sex.
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As is like⌠what, 99.999999 percent of all clothing made. Weâre all implicated, not just feminist.
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This thread is seriously distracting everybody from the news of Rob Fordâs demise.
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This.
Love how feminists need to so fucking above reproach in all fucking things! The fact that all our phones are made under horrible circumstances, or the minerals for our devices batteries are mined by children, no none of that is of any matter, because the feminists made shirts under ânormal operating proceduresâ and those arenât very good! Haha! Gotcha! something something late stage capitalismâŚ
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Thin Mints are the best.
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Why do you have to fat-shame the mints?
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Thin Mints donât work. I should know better than to trust big Girl Scout.
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Itâs only a handy slogan in the same way that âdihydrogen monoxideâ is a handy slogan for âwater.â Itâs a meaning of the word. All meanings are subject to a variety of interpretations.
If one believes that women are equal to men, then it entails the belief that a fair society will treat them that way, and it doesnât take an especially astute observer to see that society does not currently treat them that way.
And one can still have that belief and be a complete asshole. Itâs not like believing in mathematics or evolution or any one of a million other correct beliefs is some inoculation against being horrible.
[quote=âDaedalus, post:90, topic:75374â]Itâs only a handy slogan in the same way that âdihydrogen monoxideâ is a handy slogan for âwater.â Itâs the meaning of the word. All meanings are subject to a variety of interpretations.[/quote]Well, no, âdihydrogen monoxideâ isnât at all subject to a variety of interpretations.
[quote]If one believes that women are equal to men, then it entails the belief that a fair society will treat them that way[/quote]âA fair society will treat men and women equallyâ is already considerably more specific than âwomen are equal to menâ.
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Many conservative religious groups would agree that women are equal to men. They donât mean that they should be treated the same at all, and see no incompatibility with the idea that there are specific roles set for each gender. (Many other groups do too, but generally in a less codified form).
It is. Put it on a sign and scream that dihydrogen monoxide is killing hundreds of people every year at a Trump rally and youâll get a very different interpretation than you would when you put it in a chemistry textbook.
A reasonable expectation of a fair society is that it is one treats equal people with equality. With that expectation, belief that men and women are equal thus entails a belief that a fair society will treat them with equality. Again, a fairly unsophisticated observer can see that our society does not currently treat men and women with equality, and thus, if men and women are equal and a fair society is one that treats equal people equally, our society cannot be said to be a fair one.
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So, this is an open thread, right?
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I would argue that the problem with Deen is the rapes. People deserve to be able to engage in consensual rough sex, on or off camera, without getting raped.
And BDSM isnât mainstream. Itâs insultingly equated in trash like 50 Shades of Gray with abuse and exploited in the multi-billion dollar porn industry which caters to customers who prefer sad tasteless mechanical parodies of sex over the joys of actual sex. We live in a society where people are shamed for their sexuality and then they resort to watching those parodies the performers of which are themselves shamed and treated as social pariahs by hypocrites who canât stand the idea of living in a society where sex isnât some dirty little secret to be hidden in away in the Protestant closet of cognitive dissonance. This in turn leads to victim blaming when creeps and rapists do inveigle their way into BDSM communities and the porn insdurty (which are two separate things) because hey, what do you expect, you role played bondage so surely you deserve whatever happens to you. Except itâs just another version of the same victim blaming all rape victims face. Hey, you left the club with Joe Rape-a-lot, what did you expect?
Sorry, no. Someone may not like BDSM, may even have ethical objections to consensual BDSM play. But thatâs not whatâs going on here. Deen is a rapist. Consent doesnât stop mattering for those who engage in rough sex. It matters no more or less because consent always matters most and absolutely.
Our society is massively sexually repressed and that unhealthy state of affairs finances Big Porn and allows sex workers to be exploited by businesses where no ârespectableâ members of society will stand by them if they demand workerâs rights.
ETA: I know youâre not saying role-playing is rape, but making this about the type of sex distracts, IMO, from the problem at hand, rape.
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If society does not treat men and women equally, then the actual situation is that men and women are not equal, irrespective of how much we would like them to be or think they should. Clearly you have a well-formed idea of what the platonic ideal of a fair and just society is, but that has little bearing on the material status of women in the real world. The danger of saying âmen and women are equalâ is that some boorish mouthbreather (say, someone from your Trump rally) who wants to cling to entrenched male privilege will throw that straight back in your face. âIf men and women are equal then all those feminazis really want women to be superior to men!â
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You had me at âplaudits from Bret Easton EllisâŚâ
[quote=âAnonyMouse, post:96, topic:75374â]
If society does not treat men and women equally, then the actual situation is that men and women are not equal, irrespective of how much we would like them to be or think they should.
Clearly you have a well-formed idea of what the platonic ideal of a fair and just society is, but that has little bearing on the material status of women in the real world.[/QUOTE]
You donât need to have a well-formed platonic ideal of what a fair and just society is in total to believe that men and women should be treated equally in one. You just need to assent to the fairly mundane propositions that (1) a fair society treats equal things as equal, and (2) men and women are equal, ie, feminism.
There is no claim about gender equality that will not be condemned by some mouthbreather somewhere. The danger there is in mistaking that passion for reasoned criticism. In making that mistake, you waste valuable time not talking about the underlying issues in that pontificating.
Anyway, Iâm not sure what this has to do with my initial assertion that one (including some dude in porn) can be both a feminist and a horrible person at the same time.
Dude, I studied the female autonomy in college.
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- The world is full of damaged people
- Porn casts on Earth
Quod Erat Demonstratum
