American Theocracy: The Rise of Christian Nationalism - " the societies that practice it are the most evil places on Earth"

boing
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Yeah, but “something that has the potential to happen in the future” doesn’t put a country in the running to be “the most evil place on earth”. Because the evil places list already includes dozens of countries like Syria and North Korea where all that stuff is ongoing, at massive scale, right now. It’s not even clear if left and right have anything to do with this. North Korea and Syria are nominally socialist, for example. Russia would be categorized as right wing, but it was also pretty terrible when it was left wing not long ago. It seems like some places just suck, whatever system they nominally have.

I didn’t say Hungary is free. I pointed out the unfreedoms they have there… but again, Orban’s Hungary has a level of freedom and safety for opposition politicians, minorities and LGTQ that Syrians and North Koreans can only dream of. No one is getting killed there.

Come on, this claim is ridiculous and it only discredits the point this guy is trying to make.

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Sure, what terrible hyperbole this all is, to think these movements are really that bad in the greater scheme of things. It’s not like America was taking minority children away from their parents and leaving them in cages unsuitable for stray animals in the last couple years or anything. :unamused:

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We should also not ignore just how much he’s working to consolidate power so he can implement the full on Christian nationalist agenda.

For now.

We can’t wait for death camps to act. And not a single person here said that human rights atrocities in other places don’t matter or are not evil. But we are barreling towards some seriously horrible times where the method of dealing with political opposition is going to look like Germany in the 30s and 40s. We will fail if we act like what’s happening now can’t lead to eliminationist policies further down the line and ACT to prevent it.

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Really?

As with America’s MAGAts, the Jews (apart from boogeyman Elder of Zion George Soros) may not currently be at the top of Fidesz’s hit list. However, to imply they’re not on the list or so far down on it as not to matter displays a real naivete and ignorance about the relationship between right-wing populist regimes and anti-Semitism.

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But see, he’s not rounding them up and putting them into camps, so he won’t possible do so in the future! /s

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Bringing things back to the main topic, Orban – like fascist leaders past and present – makes use of Christianity to sell hatred of others when it suits him.

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Where you stand depends upon where you sit.

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Bad people do bad things. How trenchant.

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The entire GOP and every Christian around Georgia that think they’ll vote for Hershel Walker, consider this:

You are willing to put a hypocrite who do NOT value the same things (until recently, and probably never did) into office, just so your evangelicals can then wield “democracy” to dictate those same “values” to the rest of America.

A vote for Walker, and indeed for the GOP, is basically telling America that you support or tacitly condone turning America into a hypocritical theocracy where your leaders can FORCE their worldview onto others.

They already did it to you, and they are coming for the rest of us. And you made it / let it happen.

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Simple answer. Yes. Yes, of course they are. It’s not about values, it’s about power. Specifically, the power to hurt people who have the audacity to be other.

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Investing a lot of resources in this strategy can have its downsides. The target audience can feel betrayed if a mistake is made.

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Yes really. The links you posted are various people’s opinions. A lot of people hate Orban, but having negative feelings about someone in power isn’t the same thing as being physically in danger.

I’m no fan of Orban but I am a fan of reality. And reality is… the government of Hungary has taken no actions that are harmful to Jews, and the types of terrorist or on-the-street attacks that Jews suffer from in France, Germany and Belgium, simply don’t exist in Hungary. Here’s a recent story about how an important rabbi in Hungary worked with the government there to set up a center for Ukrainian Jewish refugees, and it seems like thousands are coming there. With government approval and assistance. The video of it, for Israeli news, (Arutz Sheva, Israeli religious channel) looks pretty good! Orban is also a friend (seemingly sincere) with Bibi.

A country where the government is welcoming and supporting Jewish refugees, where there are zero terrorist or street attacks on Jews (unlike most of the rest of western Europe), and which has the largest synagogue in Europe, isn’t exactly the Third Reich, at least not yet.

Compare all of this with France where attacks on Jews are constant, Jews have all kinds of security measures, and even so the safety situation is so bad they are all leaving.

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Opinions citing actions and statements by Orban and his regime. I know It’s comforting to think that this right-wing populist regime will finally be the one that defends “free” markets without eventually sinking into anti-Semitism along with other bigotries. However, that’s about as likely as any conspiracy theory not ending up blaming the Jews. Anti-Semitism is where these RWAs always end up, whichever groups they make the initial targets of official violence (and let’s not ignore the groups that Orban’s regime are already going after as a matter of policy).

Since Netanyahu is another right-wing populist, one who shares Orban’s hatred of Muslims and of liberal secular Jews, it’s not surprising that they’d find common ground. I know this is shocking for you to hear, but sometimes fascists pretend to tolerate Jews and play two-faced games when it’s expedient and suits their larger aims.

Or perhaps you now want to tell us how so-called evangelical Zionists in the States support Israel because they love the Jews and then cite that as evidence that this documentary is mistaken about the danger posed by Nationalist Christian politicians in America.

Those attacks are not government-sanctioned, and French governments since WWII have not even flirted with pushing anti-Semitic tropes and dog-whistling the way Orban has. Neither have they engaged in right-wing historical “revisionism” to portray anti-Semitic fascist figures of their countries’ wartime periods as slightly flawed anti-Communist heroes. The same goes for the post-war governments of Belgium and especially Germany.

Getting back to the main topic, Orban’s regime is infused enough with Xtian nationalist elements that there’s no need to downplay how toxic it is. In a new global fight against fascism there’s not much point in setting up a contest so that one can find a right-wing regime we can live with and (so important!) do business with.

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That’s really minimizing the status and safety of LGBTQ people and rights there. Trans people now have no legal right to exist. Queer people are associated with pedophilia in law. The right to have a family via adoption was outlawed.

And really- denouncing the right of mixed heritage people to exist? How does one possibly not see where that leads. Unless one is sympathetic to these positions and actions.

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It is for sure counting one very specific type of hurting people only. Being singled out and executed on the street, bad, as we can all agree.

Having your rights restricted and constantly being told you should die until you start considering it, though – or all the things such prejudice does to your ability to find things like work and healthcare – apparently meh.

Being at special risk of being shot by cops because they don’t trust your skin color – well, above Fefelo said Christian countries are all way down the list for places minorities are treated unpleasantly, and elsewhere he talked about how anyone can go anywhere in the US. So apparently meh too.

I mentioned immigrants in America having children taken away and thrown in literal concentration camps above. Another meh? I mean, migrants seem to be conspicuously absent from the discussion – Orban is apparently to be evaluated on his treatment of Jews only, although if one were looking for harm he already caused, you would think the refugee crisis and his attacks on letting Muslims into Europe might have come up.

(As a note, there is something so horribly grim in saying “Hungary isn’t so bad, it has a level of security people in places like Syria can only dream about”, given that the whole thrust of Orban’s movement was to make sure those stay dreams.)

Canada just had its National Day for Truth and Reconciliation a little while ago. It’s a somber day to reflect on why that country, which in a lot of respects is a very nice and inclusive one, is coming up full of mass graves of children. Think that made it into the rankings of how minorities are treated, or think it’s a meh for some reason or other too?

Yeah, me too. Evil looks like Nazis, Muslim countries, or…slightly…Russia. Everything else here, the papers are still running and the well-off are still attending clubs, so you can trust it’s fine for everyone. :unamused:

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Didn’t he always go on about Aramaic? Confused!

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No - that was aromatic. He was very into incense.

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You’re (intentionally, I think, since it was pointed out above) ignoring the deaths and displacement of refugees caused by Orban’s hard line against immigrants. He’s intentionally fucked with them and with other European countries, on a much larger scale than Abbott and Desantis’ little pranks in the US.

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Ah, yes. When in the midst of many unwashed people…

image

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Well, he did say Orban the strong man was protecting Jews from terrorists, and we all know that terrorists are only from one part of the world and of one religion! /s

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