An interview with Jordan Peterson, who believes in witches and dragons

Jordan’s Rules for Reactionaries

  1. Be misogynistic
  2. Be transphobic
  3. Be a rape apologist
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If “struggling” = “weak-willed and callow” I suppose such obvious nostrums count as good advice. The regular additions of shout-outs to racists and sexists that are part of his schtick work against them, though.

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Bracing for the storm but…

As someone who has read both Maps of Meaning and 12 Rules for Life, and listened to his Harvard lectures and many of his interviews, I think that much of the criticism leveraged on Peterson is that a lot of his stuff is taken grossly out of context, or interpreted in the worst way possible.

Peterson is not a member of the alt-right. He has spoken out against them frequently, even condemning Richard Spencer. Peterson is not a transphobe; he is just strongly against (a) compelled government speech (which I assume we all can support limiting the government’s ability to force us say to things), and (b) the attempt to ignore one of the things that he’s spent his career as a clinical psychologist observing and studying (namely that a solid majority of the time sex and gender match). He’s not a misogynist, any more than any person who has studied and understood human evolution can be. And never have I ever heard him utter anything racist. He doesn’t even promote these ideas, and I’m constantly surprised to see that he’s put in the same box as the Spencers and Milos of the world.

Of course, he’s not perfect either. Some of his ideas are far out, but that’s probably due to his strong Jungian influence. I take everything he has to say with a grain of salt.

I think that most of the criticisms of Peterson are unfair, and are leveraged by people who don’t understand him or take the time to understand him. Yes, there is a sort of personality cult that has formed around him, but the irony is that he actually speaks against cults of personality. Much of what he’s had to say has been to help people take responsibility for their own actions. In the end, before criticizing Peterson (who does not actually believe in witches and dragons) based on what other people have said about him, and hear what he has to say. You might find that you agree with him more than you disagree with him.

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As you can see here, he’s a transphobe because he’s using the issue to set up himself and other reactionaries like him as victims. The issue isn’t about him and people like him, but he’s appropriating it so he can claim – as so many members of the dominant so often do – that he and his kind are the real victims these days.

Yeah, right. Openly wishing for the days when men generally thought it was okay to hit women isn’t misogynistic, nope, not at all!

Your willful blindness is . . . interesting.

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By the critics, or the devout followers?

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Uh-oh. I haven’t looked at the arguments based on evolution that he’s using, but I’ll point out that evolution isn’t his field and he seems to have a habit of using superficial cherry-picked points.

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Why not both?

Some of his followers (especially on his subreddit) are way out there. I’m like “are you even paying attention to what he’s saying?” But at the same time, some of his critics only take the convenient soundbites, and twist them to fit their narrative.

YMMV, but the impact Peterson has had on my life has greatly improved my quality as a person, a husband, a father, and everything else I was sucking at.

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Scroll up; substantive criticisms which back her point up have been posted here.

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Okay, I’ll bite. What specific advice from Peterson made you a better husband and father? What do you know do differently in those two roles, thanks to his advice? How did you “suck” at them before?

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Please click on the link I provided, instead of willfully ignoring any and all substantive criticism leveled at what Peterson has to say.

In this case, he drew attention to himself by inserting himself and those of his ilk into an issue that had nothing to do with free speech, and he did so in order to don the (unwarranted) mantle of victimhood. That’s transphobic because it’s an appropriation by the dominant of issues faced by members of a minoritized group.

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Um. I hope he doesn’t have kids. Because, well, sometimes you dislike your kid. It’s part of them being a kid and growing into an adult.

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“the sake of transgendered people”

FYI - transgendered is a weird construction - you don’t say someone is gayed or Irished.

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“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”

Please tell me more about this nuance you speak of. The man himself deliberately sensationalizes his own message; for the same reason all celebrity “intellectuals” do: throwing meat to your fans is very satisfying and lucrative for all involved. At this point, he’s a self-parody, self-help guru out there selling units to a fan base. Any insights he may have had are now subsumed to the “product”.

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You’re quoting from the Something Awful “interview”, which is parody of the NYT article.

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Peterson’s claim that C-16 would “compel speech” is completely disingenuous. From the Canadian Bar Association letter in support of C-16:

Nothing in the section compels the use or avoidance of particular words in public as long as they are not
used in their most extreme manifestation with the intention of promoting the level of abhorrence,
delegitimization and rejection that produces feelings of hatred against identifiable groups.

The purpose of the bill was to extend the protections of the Canadian Human Rights Act to transgender people. As long as Peterson’s remarks, odious as they may be, don’t cross over into hate speech, he has nothing to worry about.

Here’s a link to the CBA letter. Maybe take a peek at it when you have a chance.

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Worse, the fans he’s deliberately seeking out with his calls for greater “tolerance” of sexist and racist ideas are from the alt-right. The greatest praise and support for him can be found in MRA, incel, white nationalist and similar cesspool forums.

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Even your charitable interpretation of forced monogamy does nothing to explain/solve what afflicts men who have trouble finding partners. They aren’t anti-social misogynists because society has turned to polyamory and suddenly there’s not enough partners to go around. There are just as many willing females looking for decent men as ever. 99.9% of them monogamous. Yeesh.

The sexual revolution and feminism did, thankfully, bring us to a place where decent humans don’t have to put of with this shit anymore. Personal sexual agency has been amazing for most of us. Enjoy blowjobs? You’re welcome. For those that it hasn’t; obviously more time and energy developing oneself in the areas that actually matter and less time blaming others would be a good start

Telling them its all societies faults for turning its back on true nature and tradition; guess what, make them feel even more entitled and increasingly resentful. Geez, JP; I’d say you were a joke but you’re so much much worse.

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Thanks for asking. Though it’s not really your business, I’ll answer anyway. :slight_smile:

I once was a person who was always getting angry, always taking offense, and always seeking to defend the right-ness of my actions. Any criticism of me or my actions was met with vitriol. This was something that eventually came to a head, and I was always getting into yelling arguments with my wife, especially in front of our young daughter. I was so caught up in myself, I couldn’t see how I was tearing my family apart.

Enter Peterson and his emphasis on self-responsibility and, yes, masculinity. While I did use other resources to manage all the wrong things I did in my life, Peterson was the catalyst, the “aha” moment. That’s not how I’m supposed to act. So, I made very strong efforts to control the monster that lived within me, and soon, was able to overcome it. Now, when the world rains shit on me, I am a river stone.

My relationship with my wife improved (it was literally on the edge of divorce). While my relationship with my daughter is about the same, I feel less bad because I’m no longer subjecting her having to watch her parents argue, but instead have reasonable, rational conversations on how to handle disagreements. I’m a better worker, and a more civil person on the internet. :stuck_out_tongue:

The major factor that helped me was I no longer responded to issues with emotion, but with reason. I was previously just mirroring the people around me, who were whirlwinds of emotion. And now, I am my own person. Now I don’t take everything personally, and seek to understand people, instead of take offence at what I don’t understand.

There’s loads more to that (but I have to continue to be a good worker), but really, Peterson’s advice helped me change who was in control of my life. Me.

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Thanks - I’ll delete that.

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