It isn’t even Brain Science, it’s simply respecting people being themselves.
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Fuckin A; everyone deserves the same rights, agency and basic respect as a human being that I want for myself.
How hard is that to understand?
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That’s it. For everyone. No excuses.
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Both TERFs you mentioned in your post have stated their position that trans women aren’t women, and intentionally misgendered them. As an ally, it’s important to know that intentionally misgendering someone who is trans or gender nonbinary is the rough equivalent of a racist calling a minority the worst, most vile derogatory name for their minority.
Is that an action that deserves a real, nuanced discussion? Or is it an inherently hostile act that deserves nothing but contempt? I’m pretty sure it’s the latter. So fuck Rowling and fuck Murphy.
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I’m not sure “yet another” is the correct phrase to use, since it implies Rowling is the exception, rather than the rule. Most of your favorite writers, musicians, artists, etc. will eventually end up saying (or even doing) something you consider immoral. Tying your enjoyment of their work with who they are as a person is a one-way ticket to disappointment.
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True, but when their statements clearly endanger my life I will be chorusing “Fuck off!” until they have indeed fucked off.
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Most of my favorite writers, musicians, artists, etc. do not deny my identity, lived experience or humanity.
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Right? How is it so hard for some feminists to see this?
Right?
In this case, she keeps digging her hole deeper. This wasn’t a stupid misstatement, but a recurring theme that she has been hammering on for a while now, even after people have expressed disappointment and sorrow at the deeply hurtful things she says.
You don’t get to dictate how someone spend their time and money. We all get to make those decisions for ourselves. If someone’s continued denial of other’s humanity is a bridge too far for some of us, then it’s not for you to moralize to us about how we should STILL support them.
And yes, plenty of artists don’t end up saying blatantly hateful things.
Roger that!
And that!
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Conflating anti-trans views as just immoral is not great my dude. Denying someone’s existence goes a few steps beyond that.
As far as separating the art from the artist sure there are times i can do that, but there are issues that are near and dear to me and when i find out that a given person is a piece of shit i choose not to “separate the art from the artist” because doing so can still give legitimacy, money or any other kind of support to that artist. In the case of JK Rowling i was never a fan but always entertained the notion i might read the books one day, now i’m glad i never did and i will never bother to pick up her garbage.
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In case anyone really wants to dig into it, this is a point by point take down of Rowlings essay on what she misrepresents, and what each point means.
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No argument from me there. JK Rowling’s an asshole and should fuck off.
Give it time. If not yours, then someone else’s.
I am not moralizing or telling anyone what to do. I’m merely pointing out what happens. Don’t read meaning into my statement that’s not there.
If you think “plenty of artists” don’t turn out to be horrible people once they become old and/or irrelevant, that’s fine, but I’ve seen far too many examples to the contrary to find that kind of optimism comforting.
Fair enough.
First, old people aren’t irrelevant. That’s kind of ageist.
Also, counter point…
All old and still fucking awesome.
Oh, and also remained awesome…
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Glad you posted this. It’s not just offensive, it is damned dangerous, as well as supportive of “conversion therapy” abuse camps. And a mockery of actual science. Not that they care about science, of course. If you start with a conclusion and work the science backward, that is not science, it is religion.
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Hate to break it to you, but “plenty” of talented people are utterly horrible assholes even when they are young; age is irrelevant.
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Right? And plenty aren’t, at any age. The whole idea that we all become bigoted assholes as we age is misleading and often obfuscates our real issues with systems of inequality and oppression.
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No, I am not being disingenuous. The question of who counts as a “real” woman is a topic feminists have fought over prior to the inclusion of trans women. What constitutes being a woman has never been something feminists have all agreed upon.
You want to see a more nuanced and thoughtful discussion but I see the damage this does
Respectfully, I disagree. Not that damage has indeed been done, real violence in addition to hurtful words – a (trans) woman was murdered on my street a few months ago. I get it. But I also know that violence against women has been a feminist issue for some time.
Allowing a woman who was physically abused by a man, to write that she feels threatened by a trans woman with a penis in a female only space is not a harmful act. Does it mean that the fears of a traumatized person should be allowed to dictate public policy? No, of course not. Does it mean that she is actually in danger? No. But refusing to hear the complaint will not make it go away. If we cannot discuss how to create a society in which women (trans and not) can live without fear, we will not ever get that society. Shutting down women’s voices, when they are trying to communicate their lived experience, cannot be the solution.
Personally I do not understand the need to have female-only spaces (however they are construed), but I accept that there are many women who are not me, who have experienced trauma at the hands of men and feel very strongly about the issue. So how do we construct a society that respects people’s different needs? How to we create a space that supports all women? Even prior to the recognition of trans people feminism did not have an answer.
Maybe Rowling is a terrible human being. Maybe she is lying when she speaks about how she was abused and how that has impacted her life – I don’t know the woman and have no particular attachment to her. But I stand by my statement that I would like to see more reflective discussion about the issues surrounding the inclusion and support of trans people into society (like the articles I linked to above) rather than simply flurries of condemnation for raising any questions about the topic.
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Word.
Mere aging doesn’t turn a person into a completely different creature from the core personality that has always been there.
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Yes. White feminists often kept out women of color. They were wrong, too.
So why ignore violence against transwomen?
Transwomen are women. It’s not a penis that hurts a woman, it’s someone who identifies as a man.
But also, what about lesbians who have been abused by their partners. Women can abuse women, too. Do we keep out lesbians from women’s only spaces, too, because of that?
But you can’t identify with transwomen’s exclusion or abuse?
She was not abused by a transwoman, but by a cisgendered man.
I think what she’s said about transwoman should be condemned, because it’s entirely wrong a variety of levels.
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Would you say allowing a woman who was physically attacked living abroad – which is a thing that happens in many places – to write that she feels threatened seeing immigrants at home is not a harmful act? Or would you recognize that as xenophobia, which genuinely harms immigrants by denying that they will ever truly have the same place here as everyone else?
That’s the kind of nonsense this is. In case you have somehow missed everything to do with this issue, trans people have a rough go because bigots hate them. And one of the ways they try to paper that is to invent people who are somehow victimized by letting them be who they are, and then hide the very real harms with transphobia behind these hypothetical ones. That’s the talking point you are indulging in here.
Just don’t. Ever. This nonsense is hurting real people. I don’t know how to say that strongly enough.
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