Question for Max: when Herr Drumpf says Bannon isn’t racist or part of the alt-right, is Drumpf
a) flat out lying, or
b) shockingly deluded
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DO THIS ONE NEXT!
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Little child smiling, maybe it’s a juice ad? <<>>
Since when has Trump known what he was tlaking about or been consistent on any subject. Never. Ever.
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First, I’d like to say that you did a very good job with the graphics!
My two cents: I don’t think this kind of thing can be done constructively, and I’d like to give a few reasons why I think so.
First, an image like that ceeds strength and power to those you’re criticizing. I understand why you chose a Nazi theme, but it invests the alt-right with a lot of power. Personally I find such haters somewhat sad and pathetic, and I think it is problematic to portray them as strong. What’s more, Nazi imagery has shown itself to be very seductive to a lot of people.
Secondly, I find the whole term “alt right” problematic (in spite of the fact – or perhaps because of the fact – that many in that “movement” use the term themselves). Once you group a bunch of people behind a single term – be it “alt right” or “muslim”, and once you’ve started creating propaganda directed against them, you’ve already started down the path of dehumanizing the group. The only thing that remains is fighting. No conversation. No discourse. And I guess I’m enough of an optimist to believe that many of the people who are now being corralled into the alt-right term are people who should be engaged, not just fought. Sure, I’m sure there are many self-identified alt-righters who are beyond productive engagement, but if you cast the net too widely you risk pushing a lot of semi-marginalized people into that camp, swelling their numbers.
It seems to me that the alt-right and the “Trump revolution” are kind of the logical conclusion of identity politics. And while I understand the desire for identity politics, I think it’s a big part of the problem. Yes, people need to look after their own needs and identities, but just as importantly an eye should be kept on the collective when engaging in collective action like politics. Somewhere along the line sight has been lost of this, and I think both the right and the left have a lot of culpability in that.
Work like this gives an even stronger “identity” for people to attach themselves to, and that’s a real problem. There are more under-educated, increasingly economically disadvantaged white folks out there than any other “identity group,” so if they’re pushed into the alt-right – either by those who would manipulate them into it or well-meaning people “opposing the movement,” they will win.
That’s how democracy works. It’s a numbers game, and well-orchestrated majorities always win.
I imagine that this won’t be a popular opinion on BB. People have worked up a good case of righteous indignation about the whole situation, for totally understandable reasons. But once you’ve given up even trying to engage in those you disagree with – even if such engagement is doomed to failure – democracy is toast.
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Proud to say my local NPR affiliate has decided that they no longer will use the term alt-right, but instead has chosen to call them white nationalists for the sake of accuracy.
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remember , kids ( of all ages ) !! this is just a metaphor !! violence is never kewlio , never the answer !! in a sense , kicking them in the solar plexus is energizing their manipura chakra , and helping them to be less pained on their next time around the wheel
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It’s a bit tricky.
They probably number a few thousand, which makes them about as significant as Marxist-Leninists. And there’s no doubt at all that addressing them in any way seriously means that they’ll probably end up numbering at least 25,000 (which is why they rightfully luxuriate in all the negative new coverage) and perhaps twice that if we manage to seriously link them with the reins of power in people’s minds.
But at some point, given the political climate, they could actually be a meaningful threat. So perhaps it’s better to give them the boost they want now rather than be surprised by a much slower growing strength later on.
Still, I worry that we might actually help create an alt-right that’s actually worrisome from a small coterie of self-obsessed Internet provocateurs.
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It’s cool, everybody! They were just acting like Nazis to be “ironic!” You see, the Alt-Right is basically just a bunch of misunderstood hipsters except that instead of wearing skinny pants they wear “Trump that Bitch” T-shirts and instead of complaining about GMO foods they complain about non-white people.
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I am sure that the people here mean well, but as a dharmic anti-racist I cannot get behind the cheap shots of using swastika as a stand-in for racist ideology. Just because some people take a religious symbol and try to ruin it doesn’t mean that it is cool for you to do the same. But, hey, all the cool kids are doing it so whatevs.
If you saw similar graphics with a someone wearing a star of David being beaten or targeted, you might understand the visceral distaste I feel when I see the swastika being used the same way. People seem too smug about it for me to expect them to change their minds, but just be aware that some people find the practice offensive.
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Imagine how the christians must feel:
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Heh. Yeah.
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I have never had much luck understanding the Christian mindsets that I encounter, but I try. But with them also it is easier to take cheap shots at their symbology than have the patience to refute their destructive ideals.
So what makes it cheap?
What I’m saying is, you’re the one who decides how the symbol makes you feel. And you don’t have the right to cry misuse of symbols so widely known. Neither do I. It’s not our jobs to police them. And while it’s unfortunate such a multicultural and widely used symbol for peace and prosperity ended up corrupted by what the nazis did and their use of it, I don’t think ignoring the nazi use will ever un-corrupt the symbol.
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It is devoid of content, so it discourages debate and discussion, which I think is intellectually dishonest. As alluded to in the Sartre quote you linked to above, bigots excel at pushing people’s buttons and eliciting knee-jerk reactions. So the best (perhaps even only) way to counter them is dispassionately.
But instead, people feel satisfied to lash out, even when they intellectually know that most people represented by that symbol are not their enemy, but accept this emotionally as insignificant collateral damage. I guess it’s a small price to pay for catharsis!
I agree that you will lose a meme war against /pol/ et al, but unfortunately you also can’t just ignore the alt-right because that got us here. Curation is literally the only cure and the only thing that has worked on 4chan and even then only when there is someone that can curate.
Considering Twitter is more willing to go bankrupt than allow for users to better curate their own microblog, things are not looking great in that regard.
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Just to be clear, despite my earlier levity, I do think that calling the Alt-Right white supremacists is not inaccurate. However, pretending they are the same old shit dressed up isn’t all that helpful.
On a deeper level, the “don’t call them ‘alt-right’” campaign embodies the unfortunate idea that white supremacist politics are basically all the same. Supposedly, once we know that alt-rightists uphold racist ideology, the details don’t really matter, and exploring them just distracts us from the central issue. But it’s precisely these “details” that help us understand what has made the alt-right a significant force, its capacity to tap into popular fears and grievances, its relationship with other political forces, its internal tensions and points of weakness. A few decades ago, most of the racist far right abandoned Jim Crow segregationism in favor of white nationalism — the doctrine that people of European descent shouldn’t just rule over people of color, but exclude or exterminate them entirely. Opponents who failed to recognize this shift were caught off guard when white supremacists moved from terrorizing black people to waging war on the U.S. government.
Saying we shouldn’t call them “alt-right” is saying that we don’t need to understand our enemy. It’s like a conservative in 1969 looking at the New Left — spanning from Alinskyites to Yippies, from Clean for Gene canvassers to the Weathermen — saying, “This ‘New Left’ label is just a ploy to hide their subversive agenda. They’re all just communists. That’s all we need to know, and all these petty differences are just a distraction.” This kind of attitude only benefits your opponents.
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Is that a pro-Romney belt buckle?..
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Got Mittens?
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