I’m not American. Spell that out for me, please.
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Yup, there are some in my community, standard reasons, otherwise science-acknowledging people get bad information, repeat it, own it and sometimes won’t can’t change. Particularly if they repeat it IMO.
It’s not even like they’re often if ever shamed for it, except online I guess, They decide they mistrust it and go down the rabbit hole, with people invested in their mistrusting vaccination beckoning them deeper all the while telling them they’re doing the right thing for their kids.
Have seen some switch back tho.
As with most things there are always exceptions and there are legit medical situations where you can’t. However you are the person the rest of us are trying to both protect and minimize the danger from.
With that out of the way Steve Rodgers, aka Captain America, has a message for all you people who care for kids (parents or otherwise.)
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AntiVaxxers’ “victory” is twofold; 1) resurgence of diseases that had long been tamed & 2) have had exactly zero (0) effect on rate or severity of ASD diagnoses.
Haazaah!
Ain’t anti-scientific solipcism grand?!?!
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Oh yes, obviously there are those who can’t, and that’s totally fine. I just means it should be taboo to be a healthy person capable of being vaccinated who chooses not to.
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They are being discriminated against. And rightly so.
People who don’t vaccinate are all potential plague carriers.
Just because a sexworker looks clean doesn’t mean you shouldn’t wear a condom.
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Well, I’m glad to see somebody other than me taking the bullets here, so thanks @PFKA_GLSPX!
I can tell you how you don’t change someone’s mind.
- tell them they are stupid
- tell them your morals are superior to theirs
- tell them your rights trump their rights
- tell them what they believe in is unbelievable
- change what they’ve said to make it fit your image of them
I’m sure there’s more ways, but I’m just listing the stuff that happens in every BB vaccination thread… not accusing you specifically of anything, you understand, just pointing out how certain forms of debate (using the word “debate” very loosely) are self-defeating. Kudos to you for avoiding all of them in the post I’m replying to!
Maybe I can help you see it. I vaccinate my children, and I teach them use of weapons.
Other people don’t teach their children use of weapons. Those people are stupid and immoral and are weakening the herd’s resistance to attack and should have their children taken away from them, and they will likely end up causing my own trained kids to be killed when the next civil war breaks out (which may well be as soon as President Trump is elected).
I’m using the vituperation usually directed at anti-vaxxers to make a point, I wouldn’t normally phrase it that way - but I’m quite serious. Anyone who wants their children to be kept ignorant of the tools of lethal force is, in my opinion, not a good parent. But it’s their choice to cripple their children in this way, and I won’t try to stop them, because their freedom of choice is more important to me than life itself. And maybe I’m wrong - diversity is important, the Quakers might turn out to be right after all, or maybe a big die-off is the best hope of human survival on this planet.
I gotta go now, so I can’t give you any more than this; but I hope it helps you see a little bit into where the great mass of people stand who are neither anti-vaxxers nor anti-anti-vaxxers. We simply do not prioritize life above all other criteria; death and plague are not more fearsome to us than coercion and tyranny. My ancestors literally slaughtered each other, by the thousands, so that people completely unrelated to them that they’d never met would be released from slavery, and I’m proud of that. My kind of people will die for our principles even if it means supporting those who will never appreciate the sacrifice. It’s a rockheaded foolishness that once made America great.
I feel like I should add that I lost a loved one to polio, and sat by her side while she died after seventy years of suffering. I’m not speaking from ignorance of what the preventable diseases do.
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I was beginning to wonder if you were okay!
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Because they aren’t actually killing anyone. It’s not the same as pointing a gun or sticking one with an infected needle. The herd immunity argument doesn’t justify coercion for me and many others who even still accept vaccines and their benefit.
The reason the coercion is wrong is because it takes away from the quality of life even though it prolongs it and it’s a dangerous road IMHO. The force of the state and saying we are owned by the state takes away from the quality of existence. Some things are worse than death in our opinion. Not like I’m militant about it or ready to start a war. Yet I don’t think it makes us better or more virtuous as a species and society.
I just don’t think someone owes that to me on a level that I have a right to use forced on them.
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It’s your God given right to carry that immunization traq gun. And stand your ground.
If you feel your life is threatened. You are allowed to use it.
How it works.
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I, on the other hand, believe people are responsible for all readily
foreseeable consequences of their own actions, and have a duty to minimize
or at least compensate for harms we cause.
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The US gov’t is a state founded on the Constitution to serve We the People to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity. As such the state is entitled by the Constitution to all sorts of coercion, with limits set by the Bill of Rights. The state can coerce you to return stolen property, go to prison for violating laws, serve in the military, honor contracts, and enforce all kinds of laws regarding public health since these promote the general Welfare. You can’t go throwing your feces in the street or sell food made in unsanitary conditions, sell things as medical cures that aren’t proven safe and effective, or do all sorts of things that harm the public. This is all coercion, and it’s a perfectly fine and just thing provided it’s not in violation of the Bill of Rights. While the state doesn’t enforce mandatory vaccination, were the state to do so, provided they weren’t violating any rights they wouldn’t be significantly eroding the quality of life, but improving it. You and I are too young to have seen the hideous and life-scarring effects of Polio, measles, mumps, diptheria, pertussis were when they were wide-spread, but we can learn from history just how badly they harmed, crippled, and killed. While I’m ambivalent about mandated vaccination, when the public manages to be so massively misinformed in such a widespread way that we’re seeing the return of diseases we’d managed, I don’t think the harms from mandated vaccination are all that serious, they are well in line with what our country has done with other health laws, and would serve to promote the public welfare, and there’s no slippery slope to some authoritarian dystopia that would result assuming the Bill of Rights is still in effect.
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The only thing you can do is limit the damage. Repeal the exemptions for non-medical reasons. Don’t let kids enter school, public or private unless they have proof of vaccination or having had all the diseases that can be vaccinated for i.e. MMR, DPT and Polio. Monitor doctors who give out an unusual number of medical exemptions and ask for documentation and second opinions when it hits a certain point. We can’t force people to vaccinate their children. We can reasonably say that unvaccinated children do not belong where they can infect others.
I’m old enough that I didn’t get the MMR because it wasn’t invented. I did it the old fashioned way I got Measles, Chickenpox and Rubella. I did get the DPT and Smallpox vaccines. I got both the Salk and the Sabin vaccines for Polio. Heck I stood in line with my parents and grandparents on Sabin Oral Sunday so we could all be vaccinated. I’ve seen what childhood illnesses do and they can do great damage. I’m not willing to charge parents with child abuse for not vaccinating, but I am totally in favor of having them keep their kids out of the public for the safety of everyone else.
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I know a lawyer whose specialty is defense in gun crimes, and you may have a winner there.
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I want to kick start it just for the delicious commentears.
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I am most familiar with Valacyclovir. It is good for many of the herpetic variants. It is prescribed as a daily use med for folks who have particularly bad outbreaks, as a suppressant. Another daily use is to prevent the spread of the virus to others, reducing the time per year one is contagious, aka viral shedding. For folks who don’t need it daily, at first symptom of a herpetic outbreak taking a larger (generally doubled) dose, followed by regular doses, should either arrest or severely shorten the outbreak.
The *acyclovir family of drugs work by being more attractive to the virus than your cells. Evidently for about 6 hours after absorbing a dose, your blood is rich with something that the virus loves, bonds to, and as you clear the drug from your system the virus goes with it. It doesn’t get all of the virus, it generally slows the reproduction down enough that your body’s own defenses can get in front of it again.
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Can you ask him if a gun has to be deadly to be considered a protected weapon?
Because I just do not get why I do not have a phaser I can set to stun yet.
Did anyone else watch Star Trek?
That stun setting was super useful!
We have nukes. No phasers set to stun…
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David Sanborn had polio as a kid, and one of the reasons he took up the saxophone was as a form of therapy. That’s why he plays the way he does, e.g. out of one side of his mouth instead of in the center – because he has to. He’s expressed bewilderment that other players would try to copy that.
Carl Perkins (jazz pianist; not that Carl Perkins) held his arm a certain way when he played due to having had polio.
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