Armed, masked Russian separatists seize "decadent" hackspace in Donetsk, Ukraine


#1

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#2

Wait… Aren’t the fascists the ones who are supposed to be concerned about decadent arts?

Also, while hardware hacking isn’t exactly People’s Glorious Nonferrious Metal Smelter Conglomerate #3, aren’t the ‘decadent arts’ supposed to be slightly more…impractical? Non-representational modernist stuff and whatnot?


#3

Sadly, armed mobs are not in the habit of letting logic and reason spoil their fun.


#4

Maybe the owner of the hackerspace managed to peeve off the wrong guy and got himself on some shitlist? Parts of the Ukraine are basically in the control of warlords and their gangs of armed thugs. If you annoy the warlord or his buddies your life won’t be pleasant.

It was rather polite of them to call ahead of time and schedule the takeover though. Maybe this is just some sort of weird political statement that maybe makes more sense in context.


#5

I would say there’s a boatload of context here; they were likely identified as a possible communications threat.

I can only use stereotypes, however, to understand how the ‘pro-russian’ separatists are behaving.

On a side note, are we going to have to revise Godwin’s law to include discussions of politics with something like:
“The length of a comment thread increases, the probability of a accusation of political astro-turfing approachs 1” with an entangled reality seen in Poe’s Law?

There’s some serious mental problems evolving in the Internet Age. I know I’m not a sentient life form, but how do the rest of you handle this?


#6

Down with the decadent means of production!


#7

Have you seen what people are doing with their 3D printers???

…almost makes me want to take up arms…


#8

I’m not even sure what decadence is supposed to mean any more. It sounds like a outdated relic of historicist argument.


#9

On a side note, are we going to have to revise Godwin’s law to include discussions of politics with something like:
"The length of a comment thread increases, the probability of a accusation of political astro-turfing approachs

I don’t see how accusations of astroturfing within threads should be lumped in with Godwinning a thread. Unlike Godwinning, there’s plenty of legitimate reasons to question obvious shilling and astroturfing within threads all over the Internet. Godwinning is taking an issue that has nothing to do with the Third Reich and injecting Hitler into it and poisoning threads.

Calling out shills is a healthy behavior and a public service when it’s done correctly, however. Like any behavior, it can certainly be abused and garner false positives, but please don’t falsely equate it to Godwinning which is always inappropriate.


#10

You missed the the second portion, where it’s tied into Poe’s Law.

This is still the internet, and reasonable people can disagree without having to denounce another’s opinion as AstroTurf.

You claim you can spot a shill, and I claim I can find 7 degrees of separation between your actions and Hitler’s.

My Comment, also has the illumination that the longer a thread goes, the more likely shills will appear, thus intellectually, Poe’s Law starts to fundamentally coincide with Godwin’s law.

If you don’t believe that, you’re literally hitler.


#11

…almost makes me want to take up arms…

You sound like Friedrich Thiemann Better to 3D print something more inspiring, than to enforce a non-“decadent” conformity.


#12

You missed the the second portion, where it’s tied into Poe’s Law.

That’s correct, but now I think you’re a Nazi shill for correcting me.


#13

.shill {
:slight_smile:
}


#14

Maybe somebody’s planning to shut down internet communications and they’re trying to be proactive by silencing the hackers beforehand?


#15

#16

It’s really not.

Decadence is simply overly wasteful luxury. Things that are decadent are not just more than someone really needs, but absurdly so.

Owning multiple automobiles isn’t decadent in itself, but owning a different sports car for every day of the week is. Having a larger than normal bathroom in your house isn’t decadent, but having a 1500 square foot one definitely is. Enjoying expensive and high quality food and drink isn’t decadent, but dining on endangered species or sucking down gold infused booze is supremely decadent.

Basically anything staggeringly wasteful and selfish which a person with an ounce of empathy would be ashamed of doing or having in the presence of those living in poverty is decadent.


#17

Decadence is simply overly wasteful luxury. Things that are decadent are not just more than someone really needs, but absurdly so.

Is this a sign of moral decline?


#18

See, there’s a term that has a nebulous meaning. “Moral Decline”. Define that, and maybe I can answer.


#19

decadence !! decaDENCE !! nibbles in your bytes !! worms in your cellphones and trojans in your lights !! we’ll put a virus in your sniper scope !! and a " grain of rice " in your arm you dope !! that puff of air you barely felt !! didn’t even raise a welt !! you think that have won the day !! but , nibbles to longs , you shall Not stay !! ~
~ - ~ _ ~
also , i , I am sparticus !! mmm, i mean hacker-space !!


#20

The term “decadence” appears to be linked to decline of all things, including morals. It’s loaded with meaning. Consider wikipedia’s treatment of the concept

In literature, the Decadent movement—late nineteenth century fin de siècle writers who were associated with Symbolism or the Aesthetic movement—was first given its name by hostile critics. Later it was triumphantly adopted by some of the writers themselves. The Decadents praised artifice over nature and sophistication over simplicity, defying contemporary discourses of decline by embracing subjects and styles that their critics considered morbid and over-refined. Some of these writers were influenced by the tradition of the Gothic novel and by the poetry and fiction of Edgar Allan Poe.

Use of the term decadent frequently implies moral censure that such declines are objectively observable and that they inevitably precede the destruction of the society in question; for this reason, modern historians use the term with caution. The word originated in Medieval Latin (dēcadentia), appeared in 16th-century French, and entered English soon afterwards. It bore the neutral meaning of decay, decrease, or decline until the late 19th century, when the influence of new theories of social degeneration contributed to its modern meaning.

Which is, I suppose, an interesting intellectual cul-de-sac to explore, should one have the time (I don’t), But for me, denunciations of decadence have the moldy whiff of conservatism, fretting about how far we’ve fallen from the good old days, when women knew their place, gays stayed in the closet, or better yet, in prison, and people could speak of moral hygiene without provoking peels of derisive laughter.