If the map is inaccurate, then the analysis might be inaccurate. Biased, definitely. We can already see that. That’s what critical thinking is all about: a sanguine, neutral appreciation of bias. Which you refuse to accept as the correct method.
Feel free to continue sucking on your sacred cow’s udder. That milk must taste so great.
You continue to spectacularly miss the point, how about actually responding to any of the actual points I’ve made?
Yeah, no.
@OtherMichael, amirite?
no, you’re not.
Yeah… no.
He also didn’t include the jihad against Hindus in India, which was pretty brutal. As for the Iberian Peninsula:
Muslims conquered Spain in the year 711. The medieval Iberian Peninsula was the scene of almost constant warfare between the Muslim al-Andalus (and later Taifas) and Christian kingdoms. Periodic raiding expeditions were sent from Al-Andalus to ravage the Christian Iberian kingdoms, bringing back treasure and slaves. In raid against Lisbon, in 1189, for example, the Almohad caliph Yaqub al-Mansur took 3,000 female and child captives, while his governor of Córdoba, in a subsequent attack upon Silves in 1191, took 3,000 Christian slaves.
The Almohad Dynasty (from Arabic الموحدون al-Muwahhidun (“the monotheists”) or “the Unitarians”), was a Berber, Muslim dynasty that was founded in the 12th century, and conquered all Northern Africa as far as Libya, together with Al-Andalus (Moorish Iberian Peninsula). The Almohads, who declared an everlasting Jihad against the Christians, far surpassed the Almoravides in fundamentalist outlook, and they treated the dhimmis harshly. Faced with the choice of either death or conversion, many Jews and Christians emigrated. Some, such as the family of Maimonides, fled east to more tolerant Muslim lands, while others went northward to settle in the growing Christian kingdoms.
The Almohads soon embarked in a campaign to destroy the Catholic kingdoms in the Iberian Peninsula and beyond. Outnumbered, the defending army led by King Alfonso VIII of Castile, defeated Muhammad al-Nasir near Las Navas de Tolosa in 1212. Las Navas de Tolosa is sought as the turning point of the Reconquista and the end of the Muslim dominance in the Iberian Peninsula.
Incidentally, when I was growing up the word ‘crusade’ meant an evangelistic campaign. Before the Crusades, it meant a pilgrimage to Jerusalem. The Qu’ran generally uses the word ‘jihad’ to mean a struggle rather than a war, but the military meaning followed soon after. The fact that modern Christians and Muslims use ‘crusade’ and ‘jihad’ in more peaceful and metaphorical ways does not mean that they haven’t also got a long history of use to signify offensive warfare.
No. Yeah?
Yyyyyyyyyyno. Nyyyyessssssno. YeannnnnnnnnnnnNOpe.
#Yeah, no, y’know?
0 voters
yessssssh naw.
OuiNon.
Nouinon.
Nonouinonnonnon.
#CAN U DIG IT?
#THIS THREAD IS NOW BACK ON-TOPIC
Listen to the victim, abused by the system
The basis is racist, you know that we must face this
It can’t happen here, oh yeah?
Take a look around at the cities and the towns
See them hunting, creeping, sneaking
Breeding fear and loathing with the lies they’re speaking
The knife, the gun, broken bottle, petrol bomb
There is no future when the past soon come
And when they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out? Will you defend me?
Or laugh through a glass eye as they rape our lives
Trampled under foot by the rights on the rise
Ich Bin Ein Auslander, Ich Bin Ein Auslander
Ich Bin Ein Auslander, Ich Bin Ein Auslander
Welcome to a state, where the politics of hate
Shout loud in the crowd, watch them beat us all down
There’s a rising tide on the rivers of blood
But if the answer isn’t violence, neither is your silence
If they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out? Will you defend me?
Freedom of expression, doesn’t make it alright
Trampled under foot by the rise of the right
Ich Bin Ein Auslander, Ich Bin Ein Auslander
Ich Bin Ein Auslander, Ich Bin Ein Auslander
Ich Bin Ein Auslander, Ich Bin Ein Auslander
Ich Bin Ein Auslander, Ich Bin Ein Auslander
Christians don’t on my side of the planet.
I was pretty shocked when, during my time in Canada, I came into contact with a Christian students’ group named “Campus Crusade for Christ”. I was this close to turning my Austrian/German accent to 11, walking up to them and saying: “Guten Tag, my name is Fritz Müller. I am viss a student group called ‘Campus Holocaust for German Culture’, and I vas vondering if you vould be interested in…”
We do use the word “Kreuzzug” (crusade) to refer to non-violent but fanatical and misguided campaigns (“He is on a crusade to educate the world about the dangers of chemtrails”), but Christians know to distance themselves from their past mistakes.
It’s not an approval of that use, just a comment that it is used in that way (or was until recently). I’m pretty sure a lot of Protestants traditionally saw the Crusades as examples of Catholic evil, but some Evangelical groups seem to have started using the term about a century or so ago. Urban Saints was founded in 1906 and was called the Crusaders until 2007. There’s a Northern Irish football club and a New Zealand rugby club called the Crusaders. The idea of calling evangelistic campaigns ‘crusades’ seems to come from Billy Graham, at least I can’t find anything before that time. In any case, he stopped using the term in 2001 as it became clearer that it could be offensive (duh). Campus Crusade for Christ changed its name to Cru in 2011.
I think both Christians and Muslims have plenty of things in their authoritative teachings and central history to deal with. It’s certainly possible to do that - Jewish people were hardly the most tolerant either at one point. However, the Crusades are often portrayed as evidence that Muslims were generally the victims of Christians, when there was plenty of officially sanctioned brutality on both sides.
Probably every uni campus is different, but ISU’s CCfC was pretty low key in their proselytizing compared to a few of the bullhorn wielding hate mongers that visited on occasion. Back in the day, anyway, you know, when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
Turkish fans boo minutes of silence for Paris attacks
Ah yes, like how the Palestinians were all for the 9/11 attacks! Only later it turns out not. And here too, this is being circulated as booing, but others are saying the footage is being badly misinterpreted.
Since I don’t speak Turkish, I would have to wait to find out more. I guess not everyone does, though; they don’t need to understand what is happening to offer this as proof how the world is split into us and them. ISIS, their Shiite victims, the Turks, the Palestinians, the Moors from a thousand years ago are all somehow supposed to be the same united thing.
Like in caze’s worthless map. The main problem not being whether the individual dots are accurate, but that it presents them in a framework that really begs the question of how to interpret them.
Consider for instance the world the crusades actually started in. The Byzantine Empire was getting attacked on all sides, by the Pechenegs in the North, the Normans in the West, the Turks in the East. To the Turks actually it was somewhat of a side issue; they were much more concerned with fighting the Fatimids, who were allied with the Byzantines.
The crusaders of course came into this wanting Jerusalem, and didn’t understand or care that the Muslims there were actually on their side against the Turks. They slaughtered the people, and when the Byzantines apologized to their allies, it was taken as a sign they weren’t true Christians. The wedge between them ultimately leading to the fourth crusade, where they went after the Byzantines instead.
But none of this is for such a map; all these different people are filtered down to the Muslims and the Christians fighting each other. All just the two teams, opposed since time immemorial, with us always at war with Eastasia. To the point where we can’t even help the enemies of ISIS because to our eyes they all look the same. It’s nauseating and shameful.
it’s not a worthless map, my only point in linking to it was to counter the commonly perceived narrative that muslims have always been the victims of christian crusades (most people don’t even seem to know various parts of Iberia were under Muslim control for around 800 years). as you point out, history is more complicated than that. there are other common bulshit narratives as well, like how tolerant they were to their christian and jewish subjects, when they were about as intolerant as everyone else at the time - pretty much everyone was an asshole back then.
