Atheist bus-ads in Madison, Wisconsin

[pixleshifter]

@SpunkyTWS

“Tired of the people you have coffee and doughnuts with once a week? Come have coffee and doughnuts once a week with us instead.”

You mean Madison Police Dept?

[jsroberts]

@abulaf1a

“The only thing worse than an evangelical Christian is an evangelical atheist.”

I wonder how much this is ‘atheist evangelism’ or ‘atheist church’, and how much it’s more of a support group for people who find these issues very difficult to come to terms with? The adverts seem to be telling people that there is a place that they can feel welcome and discuss issues affecting them rather than a place to convert religious people, and the website doesn’t suggest that people will hear presentations on why they should abandon their faith.

The campaign is designed to draw attention to help anyone who might be struggling with issues regarding their faith in Madison, with a special focus on students. College is a time when many young people reevaluate what they believe in. Challenging deeply-held religious ideas can be especially daunting, and AHA is here to help any students who may be struggling with this process. Many students face hardship from their family and friends once they “come-out” as nonreligious, and we want to let them know that there is a community of like-minded individuals waiting for them.

[RogerStrong]

[quote=“bobtato, post:9, topic:74585”]
I’m a little wary of capital-A Atheism as something that you sign up to and go to meetings to discuss. To me that’s like joining a special club to talk about how Susan Boyle didn’t drill a hole through the Earth’s crust, I mean, I know she didn’t; what’s this actually about?[/quote]
This is why I simply call myself non-religious. There’s no need for a word for not having an evidence-free belief in say, unicorns. Not believing in unicorns does NOT mean that you and your belief system are defined by “not believing in unicorns.”

Use the word “atheist”, and the religious tend to make all sorts of “If you’re atheist, then you believe _____!!!” claims. "Atheism is a religion!’ “Richard Dawkins is your Pope!” Etc.

@bobtato

Obviously, Atheism is about people who are transitioning from having religion to not having religion. But there’s a danger that instead of helping that transition, it just becomes a different kind of church, especially when “science” is treated as a drop-in replacement for “scripture”.

These two claim are the sort of thing I’m talking about.

[milliefink]

I used to think of myself as an atheist, until someone pointed out that while I believe there is no G/god, I also can’t prove that there isn’t one (or several, or many, etc.). I guess I agree with this person that that means I’m agnostic, a “skeptic.”

Whatevs, I don’t think about it anymore, unless some superstitious jerk shoves the issue in my face. Including politicians who ignore the whole separation of church and state thing.

[atl]

Maritime Canada, too. At least, all the Nova Scotians I know (n=3) use supper.

[vonbobo]

@nixiebunny

That depends a lot on the person. My mother converted to serious atheism after marrying her second husband, a fellow who rather forcefully rejected his parents’ Christian Science. She had a pretty good notion already that God is a myth, but her parents would not be keen on her saying that.

Our family all ended up atheists after attending church every week in the sixties and early seventies, but my sister is somewhat ‘spiritual’. I never took the God thing seriously, even as a tiny child.

The problem is the follower mentality, it is hard wired in the brain. For the people that need that in their lives, it isn’t so easy to leave all of the dogma baggage behind. Having a new “preacher” tell them everything they have loved their entire life has been wrong is not attractive and is not helpful.

So whobis the sign really for?

[RogerStrong]

[quote=“milliefink, post:45, topic:74585”]
I used to think of myself as an atheist, until someone pointed out that while I believe there is no G/god, I also can’t prove that there isn’t one (or several, or many, etc.). I guess I agree with this person that that means I’m agnostic, a “skeptic.”[/quote]

What about leprechauns or the Great Pumpkin? If you can’t prove that they don’t exist, does that mean that you’re on the fence about the issue? An agnostic about the issue?

[jsroberts]

@milliefink

I used to think of myself as an atheist, until someone pointed out that while I believe there is no G/god, I also can’t prove that there isn’t one (or several, or many, etc.). I guess I agree with this person that that means I’m agnostic, a “skeptic.”

I still call theists ‘theists’, even though they can’t prove that their gods exist. For me, it just means that I have some kind of opinion about this issue, not that I believe I have perfect knowledge or that I’m closed to the possibility that the universe could be different from the way I imagine it to be. It doesn’t mean that I want everyone to be atheists either, so if I think any of those points will be unclear I’ll generally go with ‘non-religious’. ‘Non-religious’ and ‘agnostic’ can have the connotation of being undecided, so there’s no one term that works for all purposes. I do think everyone should be agnostic and sceptical to a certain degree though, rather than having absolute certainty about their beliefs.

[GilbertWham]

It would explain where all my godamn tools go when I put them down. Either that, or hammer-shaped wormholes in the space time continuum are a lot more prevalent than it would seem.

[Skeptic]

@milliefink

I used to think of myself as an atheist, until someone pointed out that while I believe there is no G/god, I also can’t prove that there isn’t one (or several, or many, etc.). I guess I agree with this person that that means I’m agnostic, a “skeptic.”

Definitions vary, but a popular and useful concept is that theism is belief in a god, atheism is lack of belief in any god, and agnosticism is the position that you can’t prove god does or does not exist. So, being an agnostic doesn’t mean that you aren’t also an atheist.

[milliefink]

@RogerStrong

What about leprechauns or the Great Pumpkin? If you can’t prove that they don’t exist, does that mean that you’re on the fence about the issue? An agnostic about the issue?

Good point! I’m going to save that line for next time.

Remembering: leprechauns . . . the Great Pumpkin . . . Santa Claus…

[milliefink]

@Skeptic

Definitions vary, but a popular and useful concept is that theism is belief in a god, atheism is lack of belief in any god, and agnosticism is the position that you can’t prove god does or does not exist. So, being an agnostic doesn’t mean that you aren’t also an atheist.

Um, I’m still feeling kinda boxed in by that popular and supposedly useful concept.

[IronEdithKidd]

No love for the Easter Bunny? For shame, his high holy pagan day is approaching. Best candy of the year!

[Skeptic]

@milliefink

Um, I’m still feeling kinda boxed in by that popular and supposedly useful concept.

How so?

One is a position of belief, the other is on epistemology. They are both merely descriptive. How does that “box you in?”

[anon50609448]

@Skeptic

Definitions vary, but a popular and useful concept is that theism is belief in a god, atheism is lack of belief in any god, and agnosticism is the position that you can’t prove god does or does not exist. So, being an agnostic doesn’t mean that you aren’t also an atheist.

I don’t think that’s a popular concept of agnosticism. I think usually people use agnosticism and atheism as mutually exclusive - one is choosing to stay out of the ‘god or no’ issue, the other is having a firm stance on the side of ‘no god’ (even if you don’t go around asserting it). I call myself an atheist because I know there isn’t a god, not because I have faith there isn’t a god.

[milliefink]

Because as I think @RogerStrong implies, those terms all suggest taking the god concept itself seriously. What if one refuses to take it any more seriously than those of the FSM or the Easter Bunny?

I mean, which are you about the Easter Bunny – theist? agnostic? atheist?

[daneel]

Atheism vs Theism vs Agnosticsism vs Gnosticism

[RogerStrong]

@jsroberts

‘Non-religious’ and ‘agnostic’ can have the connotation of being undecided, so there’s no one term that works for all purposes.

I don’t think that ‘non-religious’ implies ‘undecided.’ It implies “lacking evidence for a claim, does not believe in that claim. Also may not have any interest in the claim.”

It’s also worth pointing out that “undecided” is not the same as "unable to change one’s mind when presented with evidence. I once greatly upset an evangelical friend with my response to “Won’t you feel foolish if when you die you find yourself standing before God?”

My response: “Of course not. Because then I would have reason to believe. Evidence to believe. There would be no inconsistency in my beliefs.”

edit: missed a word

[dan_smooth]

Wow! Good find. I should have scrolled down a little further when I initially read that link. Did you follow the link that discusses their budget? They have 9 paid staff members! The poster saying they meet in room 224 of Ingraham Hall had me picturing half a dozen college kids, but they are a professional operation.

[Skeptic]

@anon50609448

I don’t think that’s a popular concept of agnosticism. I think usually people use agnosticism and atheism as mutually exclusive - one is choosing to stay out of the ‘god or no’ issue, the other is having a firm stance on the side of ‘no god’ (even if you don’t go around asserting it). I call myself an atheist because I know there isn’t a god, not because I have faith there isn’t a god.

I’ve seen the belief/provability distinction often but I don’t have any way to prove how popular it is. It is a useful distinction, I think, and in line with Huxley’s invention of the term agnostic.

There is nothing inherent in the term “atheism” that necessitates that the non-existence of god can be proven. And the term was originally used by Hellenist against Chieftains, and Christians against Hellenist, so it didn’t even mean lack of belief in all gods but rather lack of belief of the right god or gods.

I think most people who eschew the term atheist in favor of agnosticism are, in fact, atheists but just don’t want to admit it because they don’t want to be clearly associated with one of the last groups it is still PC to discriminate against.