Even earlier:
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[quote=“codinghorror, post:303, topic:101530, full:true”]
Pretending that this answer is unobtainable is part of the problem. Visit a daycare. Have some children of your own and observe the differences. I do not believe gender is destiny, not by a long shot, but it is the largest source of actual measurable differences, biological and otherwise, between human beings on this planet.
The largest source of measurable differences is individual variation (probably followed by age). And gender is not biological; it is by definition cultural. Sex is biological.
You’re continuing to present evidence of behavioural gender differences (which no-one disputes) without evidence of the sex-linked biological source of those behavioural differences (which is what everyone else is talking about). Visiting a daycare or having some children of your own tells you nothing except for the fact that gender-based behavioural differences seem to appear early in life.
The answers to these sorts of nature/nurture questions are not, in theory, impossible to obtain. But they are fucking difficult, particularly when restricted by human-subject ethical concerns. Consider what is required to control/negate the influence of culture as an experimental variable.
The degree to which observed gender differences in human behavioural tendencies are biologically determined is very much an unresolved question. However, the weight of evidence from across the behavioural science fields would suggest that the role of biology is in most cases heavily influenced by the effect of culture.
Is it possible that human men tend to be biologically driven to a higher sex drive than human women? Yes. Is it an established fact that it is so? No.
BTW: It’s also entirely plausible that human women tend to have the higher innate sex drive, but that the suppressive effect of patriarchal culture has significantly smothered its expression. As I said, it’s an unresolved question.
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Patriarchy is near-universal, thanks to one big sex-based difference: men, on average, are slightly larger and stronger. Cultures in which female sexuality is not heavily influenced by male domination are vanishingly rare, quickly contaminated and poorly researched. Even amongst the handful of cultures with some semblance of matriarchy, male control of female sexuality is still a common feature.
Even if you were to find greater behavioural expression of male sexual desire in every culture, it still wouldn’t prove greater male biological sex drive. The causation could just as easily go size → dominance → suppression of female sexuality.
Which animal? You know that bonobos are matriarchal, right?
Particularly in behavioural research, animal studies are useful for providing clues as to how humans might work, but they are never conclusive. The more complex and culture-bound the behaviour in question, the less useful the animal studies become.
The studies hinted at in the magazine article you linked referred to experiments in which sex- and parenting-related behaviour in animals can be dramatically altered by pharmacological or hormonal means. “Susceptible to biological interference” is not the same as “dominantly controlled by biological causes”.
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I’m curious, why do you find it so important to be right about this? Despite being forked-off to begin with, this thread has gone completely off track. We’ve started with what could have been an interesting sociological discussion about our experiences of attraction and objectification, but now we’re stuck on this need to prove that those experiences don’t really matter because nature has more influence on our behavior than nurture does. No one has disagreed that we have biological differences, but there is a plethora of evidence that culture’s influence is demonstrably larger than you want to give it credit for.
This makes me wonder if it’s personal to you somehow. Are you trying to understand your own feelings and behaviors? Are you trying to feel better about the world your daughters will grow up in? Is it because learning difficult things about ourselves or our culture can be uncomfortable? I sense that there might be something more at stake for you here, but I just can’t figure out what it is.
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I hope you’ll forgive me if I’m overstepping, but this sounds like something that ought to be discussed with a doctor. It does not sound like a typical experience. And I do think it has (understandably) skewed your perspective on this topic somewhat.
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The extremity of what he’s saying is there for comedic effect. The apparent actual extremity of your condition is what seems worthy of medical attention.
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If he’s anything like his on-stage persona in real life, he definitely needs to see a doctor, because his character is a seriously depressed, maladjusted, neurotic human being.
See, I can laugh at Louis CK when he’s on stage for an hour or so, and then forget most of the act. If I met a real person who was as dysfunctional as his on-stage persona, I would be seriously concerned for their well-being.
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Considering the rumours of Louis’ behaviours towards female comics … I would say, yes, he should see a doctor.
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You realise the entire second half of that video is about how CK believes women’s desire levels are about the same as men’s and just not fulfilled as often, eh?
Also, he is stating what is, and not why it may be that way. It proves nothing in nature vs nurture.
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And he’s been divorced as well, with serious marital problems involving some element of the law, as I recall. Comics frequently have demons.
@anon15383236 It sucks to get gaslit (aka “you must be crazy”) when you try to be truly honest about this stuff. I withdraw all posts in this topic, and I will avoid speaking of it again here. That’s the usual anyway.
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Dude… what?
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That word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
There’s quite a bit more to gaslighting than “you must be crazy”.
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As far as I can tell, no one is gaslighting you. Nobody has tried to tell you that you are not feeling what you are feeling or that you haven’t experienced what you have experienced. What I have been trying to share is that it does not appear that your experience is typical and that you may find some relief with professional help. Perhaps I’m wrong, but there’s not much to lose to seeking advice from a doctor.
Bottom line: Your feelings are legit. My feelings are legit. But we can’t extrapolate society from that small of a small sample size.
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And, it’s not like anyone has even been saying anything close to “you must be crazy.”
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Just let it go, girl; there are clearly some internal issues going on here that have nothing to do with this discussion.
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I just don’t get how on the one hand a comic is held up as proof of a thing, and yet also “comics have demons” - so… does that not negate the proof of the thing? I are confused!
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I’ve got to jump in here because I think you’re conflating some things. “Gaslighting” specifically means denying that an individual is actually experiencing what they report - whether that experience is an internal, subjective experience (“You’re not depressed”) or an external, observable experience (“The lights aren’t flickering.”). Your personal experience has been affirmed in this thread - repeatedly. I disagree with your use of cherry-picked pop culture and old data to support generalizing your experience to an entire sex/gender - but I would never tell you that your experiences are not real.
Based on your posts, I gather that you experience your libido as something that doesn’t fit with your ideal self. If you are suffering from intrusive sexual thoughts or feelings and it makes you unhappy, why not seek out a sex positive therapist with whom you can talk about it? It doesn’t mean you’re broken or crazy, just that you have some investigating that you could do. I’d also recommend reading Dr. David Ley - his latest book ETHICAL PORN FOR DICKS and his previous work THE MYTH OF SEX ADDICTION may be of interest to you. He is sex and kink positive, and is pushing for an understanding and study of what healthy male sexuality might actually look like. You might find it interesting and useful.
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I hate hearing this and I really hope it’s not true. I’m guessing it probably is, though. Disappointing, as I love his work (for the most part).
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Saw Wonder Woman today. Some nekkid Chris Pine in there, but sorry, no penis.
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We laughed so hard at that scene. 
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