The cops drove right up next to him. They put themselves in such close proximity that if it were a real gun and the kid was actually willing to shoot them, they endangered their own lives.
How hard is it to not drive up so close, get out of the vehicle, get behind cover, and spend more than 2 seconds to communicate with the person and understand the situation? That doesn’t seem like it’s asking a lot.
So wait… if he looks like an adult, doesn’t he have Second Amendment rights?
Right. Adults never shoot anyone. What was the cop thinking? Ohio is an open carry state. However, in the waistband under the shirt is not open carry, it is concealed carry.
Yes, the police absolutely needed to get well within firing range to defuse a situation where there were no bystanders.
Actually, I suspect that staying back and engaging him with a loudspeaker might have been a viable alternative, as well as looking for bystanders to warn away, and it would be a good question to ask the more experienced officer (“Why did you approach so quickly instead of more slowly to asses the situation?”), but does that elevate the cop’s status to “racist pig murderer who was looking for an opportunity to plug a black kid”? On the cop’s side, this looks more like bad decisions than murder.
I have severe misgivings about the modern police style of be as aggressive as possible in all situations. That is likely what got John Crawford killed. Overly emotional calls on the parts of whoever reported along with a very aggressive mindset on the part of the police.
Also, how do you know there were no bystanders?
I mean, it’s not like the cop who shot him had dismal handgun performance in his record or anything.
I fail to see how being a lousy shot somehow makes him more likely to shoot someone.
I think you may have never experienced violence. It is not like it is in the movies.
Okay, so you would support charges of manslaughter then?
The poor performance he exhibited included breaking down and crying at the range and a determination that he was emotionally unstable for the job.
gun toting whites regularly are not killed by police
How do you know that? Do not take whether or not it make a splash in the headlines for evidence. Perhaps when a white guy is shot in similar circumstance, it does not make the papers. A white cop shooting a black guy is a ready-made headline. A white cop shooting a white guy is less so. We may be struggling with confirmation bias here.
Actually, I wonder at differences about how the person who called in the cops in the first place. In the case of John Crawford, the caller literally said he was pointing guns at everyone in a threatening manner and the cops responded as if he was actively murdering folks. In the case of the white guy in Kalamazoo someone posted to on here, I wonder if the caller said something like “Crazy old Bill is wandering around with his rifle again. Can you come talk him down?” Actually they described him as old, drunk, and bumbling. I wonder if that is not at least half of the problem.
I don’t doubt there is racism at work here, but it may not all be on the cop’s shoulders. Focusing on one bad cop may be a convenient way for all of us to take guilt off our own shoulders.
I am not claiming there is equal treatment between black and white Americans here. What I am claiming is that there is a danger of falling for confirmation bias that can make us miss what is actually happening for what makes a good headline.
I’m backing out now before I just start hurling insults.
Enjoy.
The copologists are swift and vigilant… or vigilante… ymmv
As to my mileage, my 12 yr old found a broken airlift pistol, it has the orange tip and we still won’t let him out of the house with it. Cops are about 1000x too trigger happy. That video shows that these cops were exceedingly poorly trained, but over-equipped with mil spec gear (see policing: UK [or any other civilized country]). They pulled up and opened up, there was no time to shout ‘put yer hands in the air’ three times. Much less comply. The cop’s story doesn’t add up but he’ll probably walk.
Speaking in generalities, because not everyone sees the world as black and white (the expression, not referring to race) and feel that bad things can happen where you are at least partially responsible for what ends up happening. It doesn’t excuse the actions of the other party. Often times bad things happen when multiple bad decisions converge - like the ending of Guy Richie film.
A generic example - say you have a guy driving around with out a seat belt and some idiot pulls out right in front of him, causing him to T-bone the car, fly through the windshield, and break his neck. The accident was 100% the fault of the other driver pulling out. The severity of his injuries though are because he didn’t wear a seat belt.
I can’t speak to specifics in this particular case.
Since (arguably bad) police training and policies appear to play a role in many of the recent and previously reported tragedies, it seems like some of these are situations where the police are some idiots who by policy or culture are told to pull right out in front of people and it’s officially never their fault because the victims weren’t wearing a seat belt.
You know, it’s not that the concept of blaming 12-year-olds and/or their parents is hopelessly flawed, but facts are stubborn things.
Detective Jennifer Ciaccia, who also serves as a spokesperson for the department, emphasized that the “orange tip” of the gun was missing and that the “the police learned the gun was fake after the shooting.”
As you will see from the video below the fold, when the police pulled up on Tamir Rice, they shoot him in less than two seconds. In that encounter, the gun is never drawn for them to see the missing cap one way or the other.
Nearly two years before he shot and killed a 12-year-old who had an air gun, Cleveland Police Officer Timothy Loehmann resigned from another police job after a supervisor described him as “distracted and weepy" and "emotionally immature.”
This is the cop you are defending. Just look at it.
Obvious argument from authority fallacy is obvious 
Don that mantle of street cred! Own it!
Also, nice avatar. Are you a medieval re-creationist? Is that the basis of your experience with violence?
The cop shot too fast, and should probably be charged with manslaughter.
And whoever bought that kid a realistic looking toy gun should be charged with endangering a child.
.[quote=“daneel, post:24, topic:48156, full:true”]
Also that the police shouldn’t handle things in a way that puts them in a situation where they are so scared that they kill unarmed children seconds after approaching them.
[/quote]
Hell, I’d say the police shouldn’t handle things in a way that puts them in a situation where they are so scared that they kill armed adult felons seconds after approaching them.
To put it really crassly, what turned our cops into a bunch of pussies who empty their clips when startled by their own shadows?
The state of Ohio allows for both open carry and concealed carry of actual firearms. Why don’t more Ohio citizens get charged for reckless endangerment whenever they exercise these rights?
Because they’re not providing a child with something that looks like the kind of thing they can get killed for playing with. An adult playing cowboy with a real firearm is responsible for themselves. A kid isn’t responsible for doing stupid kid shit with toys given to them by adults. If you give a kid a gun toy, you’re not telling them to go out and practice responsible firearms ownership, you’re telling them “go outside and pretend this is a real gun, so point it at people and act like it’s real.” The adult who provided it is responsible for that.
Gun toys are creepy full stop. Giving a kid one that looks real is unconscionable.
An enabling public who want to have public safety so long as they don’t have to think about how the sausage is made and so long as “public safety” means people who look like them are unlikely to be killed.
Do we have any idea where the toy gun came from? The kid could have borrowed it from a friend, or found it in the park. Parents are not responsible for everything a 12-year-old does outside their home.
Besides, if he had been a white 12-year-old, he wouldn’t have been shot. If anything is the parents’ fault, it’s that that they made him be born black instead of white.
Well see, that’s my point. They should share in some of the blame as well. Depending on the situation, sometimes most or all. Which unfortunately when they do make mistakes, rash decisions, or even deliberate actions they don’t seem to pay the penalties us mere mortals would.
I think perhaps I’m naively optimistic that cops in general are decent people. Maybe that is why I am willing to give them a fair shake. But their willingness to not condemn their brothers who screw up is a black mark against all of them. I do think it is a minority of cops that are a problem. Just like how some people like to point out that black-on-black crime in some inner cities is out of control, even in those worst areas it is still a minority of people behaving badly. You can’t condemn a whole population.
Anyone who puts a realistic toy gun into the hands of a child is just as responsible as someone putting a real, but unloaded, firearm in a kid’s hands to treat as a toy. It is reckless endangerment.
Might as well dress a kid in all black and let them play in the street at night.
